[Titan II]

This thread was started as a collection of posts, that centred around the discussion of my next possible acquisition, in a WRUW thread. These posts were copied and pasted here in order to make this discussion easier to track down for future reference. I'm not sure how, or IF this is going to work, but I'm going to give it a try. The original thread can be found here: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/*-*-*wruw-friday-24th-april-2020*-*-*-5169899-2.html


Titan II

G'day all!!

Great write-ups and pictures, gentlemen! Glad to hear you're all doing well and keeping yourselves healthy and busy.

Yup, this week has flown by. I'm not sure why it feels that way, but I'm happy it's Friday.

I work in an industry that's been declared essential, so I've been hard at work since this whole situation started. I feel blessed to still have an income, and my heart goes out to those who are struggling financially because of this virus.

These are the watches that I've worn throughout the week:

Monday;

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Speedy Tuesday;

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Wednesday;

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Thursday;

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And today;

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I think I'll spend the weekend doing some intense research on my next watch. I have to research my choices to death, and weigh the pros and cons carefully, because as I've mentioned before, every watch acquired from here on out will be staying in the collection.

Whatever it is you all decide to do this weekend, have a good one!

René






solesman


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*


Rene that sounds like a great weekend. Do you have any in the running already? Happy to help



Dan




Titan II


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*


Hi Dan,

I've got quite a few that I really like. Right now I'm just trying to narrow the choice to about 3 and then really delve deep into the history; tech; size and proportions; other pros and cons; and of course, the most important one (for me), the emotional appeal. There are many more, but too many to list here. I've never been keen on selling watches, even though I have sold a few in the past. I like to fall in love with a watch visually, find out all I can about it, and then use all that information gathered to try and talk myself out of getting it. Sometimes I find out that I'm not as in love as I thought I was, and sometimes I just figure out that it's not a smart decision. For example, I was thinking about a TUDOR Sub (ref. 79090), but decided against it because I'm very weary of buying preowned...it's a minefield out there these days. I've bought all my watches either directly from a small independent, or from an AD.

Sometimes watches that I've talked myself out of acquiring keep creeping back onto the list. When this happens I start taking them even more seriously. Like the example mentioned above. The TUDOR 79090. It's a beautiful, classic, robust watch that is fairly easy to service and find parts for (movement), and that I won't be afraid to wear. So, that means I'll have to take a harder look at buying preowned. Maybe the solution is to pay a bit more for a good example from a preowned dealer in order to have that peace of mind and a bit of a warranty. All things to think about.

As you know, I just picked up my 60th Anniversary Railmaster in January of this year. Once I'd finally brought it home I immediately started thinking about my next watch. This might sound crazy, but I find this works well for me. For one, I really enjoy looking at watches and learning about them. For me the hobby is mostly about learning about the watches. Making a purchase might be the most exciting part, but it's definitely secondary to the research and ogling. Secondly, I'm not independently wealthy, and because I don't sell many watches (I won't be selling ANY in the future) it takes me quite awhile to save up the money for my next purchase. This also helps curb any impulse buying.

Now, to answer your question, here are some of the watches that I'm considering (in no particular order):

OMEGA Seamaster Professional Diver 300 black dial ref. 210.30.42.20.01.001 (new)
OMEGA Seamaster Planet Ocean 2500 ref. 2201.50.00 (used)
OMEGA Seamaster Aqua Terra Skyfall ref. 231.10.39.21.03.001 (preowned)
ROLEX Explorer ref. 214270 (new)
ROLEX Oyster Perpetual 39mm white dial ref. 114300 (new)
ROLEX Submariner ref. 14060m two line (preowned)
TUDOR Black Bay 58 (new)
TUDOR Submariner ref. 79090 (preowned)

From my current collection you can tell that I prefer dark grey/black dialed time only, 3 hand watches. There are many reasons for this which I won't address here, but we'll see if this changes after this round of research.

Thanks for your offer of help; it's much appreciated. Please feel free to pass on ANY thoughts that you might have. Don't worry about thoughts that might be unpopular...I want to hear it ALL. The same goes for anyone else who might want to chime in. I'm open to all thoughts and suggestions.

All the best,

Rene





Sloopjohnb

Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*


Rene, I think I read somewhere else that you really like that white OP. Maybe the way to go. Would complement your collection very well.




Titan II

Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

I agree John. If I was to buy something today on impulse and emotion alone, the OP would be the one. Thanks for weighing in.

Rene




Sloopjohnb

Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Rene sometimes an impulse and emotion buy is the best thing to do...




Titan II


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Quote Originally Posted by Sloopjohnb View Post
Rene sometimes an impulse and emotion buy is the best thing to do...


Haha...you're absolutely right, John. If I had the cash in hand I'd be making an appointment to see my guy at the AD and picking up that OP. It's just so gorgeous. Unfortunately I still have a couple years of saving to do.

The only ROLEX I've really been interested in picking up is the Explorer. It's not that I don't like or appreciate other models. I do. Especially the Sub. However, where I live they are just so common. Also, I think the Explorer fits the bill of exactly the kind of watch I like...time only, three hander, black dial, classic design, easy to read, symmetrical...well, you get the picture. The only thing that gives me pause about the OP is the white dial. I'm not usually a white dial guy, but I think this OP just might change my whole world (a little exaggeration).

Cheers!

Rene




Sloopjohnb


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Yes Rene, there is something about the Explorer. Not the 39mm for me with its now rather chunky case but I have tried on the 36mm a few times and really like the look. And yes, the white dial may look nice but is probably not for everyone. (I would pass although I also like it on pics). But as you won‘t be buying immediately you have plenty of time to consider.




solesman

Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Hi Rene,

apologies for the late reply. I've been away from the MacBook all weekend. It was fabulous weather here so it was spent outdoors, cycling, running, BBQ etc.

So I have been reading your post.

TUDOR Submariner ref. 79090 (preowned)

Seems like you have quite the thing for the Tudor Sub. Exceptional watch! Rob aka Buchmann69 has a stunning example of a blue one. Maybe drop him a DM and see what he has to say. I agree that it's better to spend a bit more to get the very best example of a watch that you can. Saving those few hundred bucks will be quickly forgotten if the watch condition and or movement aren't up to scratch. It won't be easy but the hunt is a huge part of being a watch geek It took me a good few months to find the right Sub for me. I spent lots of time reading everything I could and watching YouTube reviews and talks from sellers etc. I passed on several watches that were in fact good enough, but I wanted to test my metal and not go for second best. When I met up with the seller (bought on Chrono24) in the pub, he was a watch geek too. We spent an hour having a beer and talking watches. When he took the Sub out and I aw the condition I was blown away. Don't discount the Tudor

OMEGA Seamaster Professional Diver 300 black dial ref. 210.30.42.20.01.001 (new)

A nice solid dependable choice.It'll fit you well at 42mm, not too thick, not a fan of scalloped bezels to use, but I hardly turn the bezel on any dive watch that I've owned bracelet is a little dated but it looks amazing on the OEM strap. Too shiny?

OMEGA Seamaster Planet Ocean 2500 ref. 2201.50.00 (used)

Classic PO. Matte dial, vintage touches with a contemporary design language. It was good enough for Bond twice.

OMEGA Seamaster Aqua Terra Skyfall ref. 231.10.39.21.03.001 (preowned)

Well I'm on my second one so that tells you something. It's a beautiful watch. One of the nicest dial designs and blue like no other. I should wear it more in all honesty. Only downside is its a little thick for its diameter. Not a dealbreaker but it is noticeable when wearing.

ROLEX Explorer ref. 214270 (new)

Classic again. Recurring theme here Not a fan of the 3-6-9 layout. Reminds me of the Spectre 300 LE lacking the 12 numeral. Highly legible and the oyster bracelet is on the money. Despite being 39mm it does wear quite large due to the large dial and lack of bezel.


ROLEX Oyster Perpetual 39mm white dial ref. 114300 (new)

Beautiful beautiful watch. Different bezel style makes it wear smaller, but the white dial make it wear bigger than the black OP. No date is a winner, the colour of the white is quite flat and one dimensional. Doesn't change in different lights much. Could get bored of it?

ROLEX Submariner ref. 14060m two line (preowned)

YES YES YES! Find the year that you like the most then find one in the best condition possible thats had as little or no polishing as possible. Be prepared to not wear anything else though. The 5 digit Submariner wears so well.


TUDOR Black Bay 58 (new)

Love the proportions. Literally the perfect dimensioned diver, but the design leaves me cold.

I look forward to seeing how the develops. I'll say one lat thing. You have great taste in watches Rene





Hi Dan,

No need to apologize. I appreciate you taking the time to give me such a detailed insight into your thoughts. You've pretty much nailed it on all of my choices.

The shininess of the SM Pro 300M was a bit of a concern for me (it being a tool watch and all), but not enough to deter me from the topnotch movement. I can't believe how accurate these Master Chronometer movements are. At present my Railmaster is performing at 0 to +1 spd depending on position. On the wrist everyday it does a consistent +1 spd. I tried on the SMP 300M at my AD and it actually fit my 6.5" wrist quite well. I'd ruled it out for a long time, concerned that it might wear too big. And the shiny factor didn't bother me either. I actually quite like the bracelet, and I think they've done a nice job updating it without completely changing the styling of the original. For me, the Seamaster Pro bracelet (and the He valve) is part of what makes the Seamaster the Seamaster. I think my whole list will be in great jeopardy if OMEGA releases a stainless steel iteration with no date. That would be a dream come true.

The OP. Yes, it is a beautiful watch. I'm infatuated at the moment. I just wish ROLEX had made the 36mm with the same dial as the 39mm (minus the double sticks indices at 3-6-9) as I believe that is the perfect size for me in an OP. I think 34mm would wear small, even on my wrist. I think we have a similar wrist size; have you tried on a 39mm OP or DJ? I'll have a real dilemma on my hands if, before I'm ready to buy, ROLEX releases a 36mm white dial OP with the same style dial as the 39mm and OMEGA releases a no date, stainless steel SMP 300M. Then I'd seriously consider what I'm sure would be the advice I'd get, which would be to get both.

Then of course there's the Sub. Because my tendency was always to buy new from an AD, I ruled out the Sub because of the new case design. Also because they are just so popular and I see them everywhere. Now, considering a pre-owned pieces, has brought the 5-digit models onto the list. However, I'm extremely paranoid about wading into these waters. Or maybe I'm making too big a deal of it.

Thanks, btw, for the nice comment about my taste in watches. You and carlhaluss can both take a lot of the credit for that. I've been admiring both of your evolving collections since I started in this hobby and, looking at my current I think that's quite evident. So thank you for the inspiration over the years and all the advice.

Thanks again for taking the time to put that post together...very kind of you.

Rene


Edit--I just had an epiphany: A 36mm, blue dial, ROLEX OP, with arabics at 3-6-9, and a Glidelock on the Oyster bracelet would cover a lot of my bases.





solesman


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

I'm not sure if a glide lock clasp could be fitted but the 36mm blue OP with the Mercedes hand mod looks awesome. I think Francisco and Rob both had one and maybe they can chime in about putting on the clasp.

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/f20/f23/ra...i-2755738.html

Like

Dan




teeritz


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Hey René, you should cut and paste your original question and Dan's reply (and any others from the Friday WRUW thread) into a new thread so that it will be easier to find as time goes by. If you don't do it, I will!
I'm still thinking about my responses. So much to consider. And I'm in a similar (sort of) position at the moment, but COVID-19 has put a slight pause on it.







Titan II


Hi Tino,

That's a great idea. One never thinks about these things until looking back and trying to find a certain post. I will move all the relevant posts into a separate thread tonight when I have more time. Good suggestion.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts on my selections. I know you've been in the business a long time and you always have sensible recommendations and good information. No hurry, but I can't wait to hear what you think.

I know you were waiting on a BB58...did anything happened with that before the ADs shut down?

René





solesman


Re: *+*+*WRUW FRIDAY 24th APRIL 2020*+*+*

Hopefully the thread will be up later today

 

[solesman]

Nicely done René


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[teeritz]

Okay, René, well done.
Based on your original posts, this is what I can ascertain;

You have a Speedmaster Professional (chronograph)
You have a Seamaster 300M Master Co-Axial, with blue dial (dive watch)
You have a Railmaster 60th Anniversary model (time-only, tool watch)

You prefer watches with dark-coloured dials, preferably black and/or dark grey.
However...you are considering a Rolex OP 39mm with white dial.

I gathered also that 39mm is the smallest size you'd wear. Your Railmaster is a half-millimetre smaller than that, but hey, it's a Railmaster! All is forgiven.

And, my favourite aspect of your collecting strategy, you place a great deal of importance on the emotional appeal of a watch. Which I understand entirely. For me, that's what it's all about. It's about how a watch makes me feel.

Of the pieces that you've listed, here's what I think;

* OMEGA Seamaster Professional Diver 300 black dial ref. 210.30.42.20.01.001 (new)

You already have the blue version of this watch. Would getting the black dial cause some doubling up?
Especially since you are also considering the...

...OMEGA Seamaster Planet Ocean 2500 ref. 2201.50.00 (used)

A great, great watch. Near-perfect, IMHO. I say 'near' because, for my 6.5 inch wrist, I wish it had been 2mm smaller in diameter and quite a few mm thinner in height. Still, I cannot fault this 1st Gen PO. Yes, it bears some design resemblance to your SM 300, but that's okay. It's Omega DNA that can be traced back to the original Seamaster 300s of the '60s.

* OMEGA Seamaster Aqua Terra Skyfall ref. 231.10.39.21.03.001 (preowned)

It's a Bond watch, from one of Craig's best. A perfectly acceptable 'Guy's watch', which works with a suit or jeans and a t-shirt. Enough water-resistance for pretty much anything. And, looking at your collection of watches, this one fills the 'dress watch' category.
Although, getting this watch means that, along with your Railmaster and blue Seamaster 300, and also your potential Planet Ocean and/or black-dial Seamaster 300 purchases, you'll have FIVE Omega watches which have ARROW HANDS in one way or another.
I had my AquaTerra, Planet Ocean and Railmaster and it felt like my collection had more arrows going on than Custer's Last Stand. I wasn't wearing the AquaTerra much, so that's the one that I wound up selling a couple of months ago.

* ROLEX Explorer ref. 214270 (new)

Classic. It's a nice watch (although I prefer it in 36. Small wrist, remember?), but since you already have the 38.5mil Raily, this watch would seem a little redundant if you are aiming for a tight collection of keepers. Not only that, but you're already considering a Rolex dress piece, below.

* ROLEX Oyster Perpetual 39mm white dial ref. 114300 (new)

It would be the only contrasting dial colour in your collection. 150m w/r. Classic 'Guy's watch'. Go for it. If in six months, it no longer thrills you, you won't lose much on re-sale, even though you aren't the kind of guy who sells his watches. However, if a watch isn't being worn, then it's just taking up space, so it's better to move it along.

* ROLEX Submariner ref. 14060m two line (preowned)
* TUDOR Black Bay 58 (new)
* TUDOR Submariner ref. 79090 (preowned)

Okay, this is where things get interestingly difficult or difficultly interesting.
Although, the more I think about it, the simpler it seems to be. The Black Bay 58 is a blend of the Sub 14060 and Tudor 79090. The main difference is the snowflake hands of the BB58.
I think this modern Tudor is one of the best watches to have been released in the last few years.
In saying that, the Sub 14060 is the last best Sub that Rolex made.
And, the Tudor Sub 79090? Well, there IS definitely something about a vintage Sub, be it Rolex or Tudor.
Hmm, looking at it all now, it's not as simple as I first thought.
Okay, if it were me, I'd go BB58 first, then Sub 14060. If I found that one of these two watches didn't thrill me after a while or it wasn't getting as much wear as I thought it would, I would sell it and replace it with the Tudor Sub 79090. The 14060 can easily fund a 79090. The BB58 would need some topping up.

Reading back over what I've written, I'm assuming that you're looking at one out of each three groups of watches? Is that correct, René?
My long response has said 'yes' to almost every watch you listed.
If it's a case of 'pick one out of each group' , then I'd say Planet Ocean 2500, Rolex OP with white dial, and the Tudor 79090. This last one would scratch the vintage Sub itch. If you found that you didn't like it after a while, it could be replaced with a BB58 easily enough.

With regard to my own BB58 situation, well I have my name down with one Tudor AD at the moment, but this whole pandemic BS has put it on hold. I have the bucks for the watch saved up, but there are a few other expenses that I need to take care of first, especially once COVID relaxes its grip.

René, you may recall that I had wanted a 1982 Rolex Submariner 5513 since the Summer of 1974, when I was a skinny, impressionable kid watching a Roger Moore James Bond double-bill (that's two movies back to back, for you internet youngsters) at a nearby cinema (that's a big room where two or three hundred people sit together to watch a movie on a screen that's a lot bigger than a smartphone, for you internet youngsters) and I finally got the watch in January 2015.

It's been a great watch, but it has needed to have the bezel refitted after I knocked it against a door-frame at home one evening. When that happened, I began to think that this watch was the equivalent of a vintage car. Sure, it can be repaired, but a richer man than I can get it repaired faster than I can.

And so, here's my (tentative) gameplan; get the Tudor Black Bay 58 -whenever that will be - and if it is as good as everybody says it is, if it has enough 'vintage-style charisma' , then I may sell the Sub and replace it with a late 1990s/early Noughties GMT Master II, Ref; 16700. That watch will come with sapphire crystal and better water-resistance than the 5513. If the lure of a Rolex Submariner is too strong, then rather than a GMT, I'll go for a 14060M Sub. Either watch will be different enough to the BB58.

The only thing in the back of my mind with all of this is; I wanted a Sub 5513 for 40 years. I built it up in my head over the decades to such a mythical status. It's the watch that my first Bond wore.
If I can get past that way of thinking, then I shouldn't have a problem. The trick with these types of decisions (you know, the ones where you're not 100% certain) is to never look back once it's done. I once read a quote from a footballer who was asked about regrets and he said; You get a sore neck looking back.

René, best of luck with your decisions. You've gotten some good responses so far from others. You'll do the required amount of research and planning, and you'll end up with the right next watch.

 

[Titan II]

Okay, René, well done.
Based on your original posts, this is what I can ascertain;

You have a Speedmaster Professional (chronograph)
You have a Seamaster 300M Master Co-Axial, with blue dial (dive watch)
You have a Railmaster 60th Anniversary model (time-only, tool watch)...



...I gathered also that 39mm is the smallest size you'd wear. Your Railmaster is a half-millimetre smaller than that, but hey, it's a Railmaster! All is forgiven...




...Reading back over what I've written, I'm assuming that you're looking at one out of each three groups of watches? Is that correct, René?

Hi Tino,

First off, thank you so much for taking the time to put together this detailed post. You're insight is much appreciated.

There were a couple of things about my position that were misunderstood.

The first is that I do not have a Seamaster Professional Diver 300M. I have the Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial Chronometer with the black dial;



The second, as concerns the OP, I'd that 39mm is the largest I would go, not the smallest. I would actually prefer the 36mm size in the OP, but the 36mm dial with the dual stick indices at 3-6-9 just doesn't appeal. What do you think of the 34mm OP on a 6.5" wrist? I love the classic 36mm size, but I think the 34mm might wear a little small...even on my 6.5" wrist.

As for splitting the watches into groups, that never really occurred to me. I'm more concerned with buying something that I love, even if it means overlapping a little, than trying to fill "gaps" in my collection.

Vintage watches have always been a concern for me. While I love the history, retro styling, and natural aging and wear (patina) of brands and models, there are many other factors that I'm very weary of. These would include, servicing costs, parts availability, wearability, and many others. This is not to mention the shark infested waters of the vintage watch market.

The more reading I do the more my "vintage" choice looks to be a Rolex 14060M. It's got a lot of the design language and character that I associate with a Submariner without being too precious to wear or a monstrosity. I love the tool watch vibe and wearability with the aluminum bezel, drilled lugs, symmetrical no date dial, and old style case.

I could go on forever with all this stuff, but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks again, Tino. Looking forward to your WRUW post tomorrow.

Very best,

René

 

[ProjectQuattro]

If 39 is the largest you'd usually go, I think the PO 2500 will be too large for you. It's a 40mm bezel diameter (the integrated lugs make it measure 42) but the thickness and weight make it wear about like a 42.

I have a PO 2500 and a 2-line 14060M. Love them both and of the watches you listed I'd lobby for the 14060M. Classic look, extremely simple and timeless style, and the 40mm size combined with the slim case makes it extremely wearable.

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[teeritz]

Ahh, okay, I'm with you now, René. Amazing how your Seamaster 300 can take on a bluish tinge in certain lighting.

Okay, given what I know now, I'd still say go for the PO 42mm. To be honest, I'm not au faix with the current line-up in the Seamaster 300 range. Over the past year, though, I have to admit that they have grown on me, but with a PO, a WatchCo Seamaster 300 and a Bond Seamaster, I feel that my Omega dive watch stable is full enough.

Just had a look at the current OP in 36mm and yes, I don't like the double-stick markers either.
Regarding 34mm Rolex OPs, given that you also have a 6.5 inch wrist, 34 is a classic size, but I can understand why you feel it may be too small. I too have gotten used to 36mm, but whenever I try on a vintage DateJust in 34mil, it just slots onto my wrist nicely. I have a vintage Tudor which has been 'under repair' for almost three years and it is 34mm. Here's a photo from November 2013;



Ultimate test for you would be to try an OP on if you get the chance.
Regarding the Explorer, there's always pre-owned in 36mm.

Vintage watches

I agree with the same issues. Service costs are bad enough, but the cost of parts! I paid about $450 AUD each for two genuine bezel inserts for my 5513. Yes, they were still sealed in their original plastic, but that's a stupid price to pay for a 40mm ring of aluminium.
Of course, the good news is that these parts will always be worth what I paid for them, if not more, as time rolls on. So, in that respect, I (probably) won't lose out.

As such, for me, the wearability becomes a concern. I'm currently wearing the Sub as I write this, because well, what's the worst that can happen while I sit at the kitchen table in front of my laptop?
And that's the problem. Given the cost and availability of parts for this thing, while it hasn't become a safe queen, it doesn't exactly get worn with reckless abandon either.
If I were a richer man, with a watchmaker who could access Rolex parts reasonably easily, then I wouldn't worry so much.

And yes, the history and patina is a wonderful thing. I can't look at this Sub without images of Bond, mid-'70s TIME Magazine war correspondents and photographers, Robert Redford in All The President's Men, and Steve McQueen (alright, he wore a 5512, but close enough, I say) all flitting across my mind's eye. The hand and marker lume have aged just right, to an off-white creamy patina. If they ever continue aging to that (IMHO) dreadful 'pumpkin' shade of pale orange, then I'll get rid of the watch.
I may still end up selling it once I've had the BB58 for a year or so. I'll see what happens.

Sub 14060M- A perfect choice. Enough of the good DNA of past models and by now, these watches already have their own history and patina. Definitely worth serious consideration. Very definitely.

Anyway, I gotta run. See you on the WRUW post later today, René!

 

[Titan II]

If 39 is the largest you'd usually go, I think the PO 2500 will be too large for you. It's a 40mm bezel diameter (the integrated lugs make it measure 42) but the thickness and weight make it wear about like a 42.

I have a PO 2500 and a 2-line 14060M. Love them both and of the watches you listed I'd lobby for the 14060M. Classic look, extremely simple and timeless style, and the 40mm size combined with the slim case makes it extremely wearable.

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Hi PQ,

Thanks for the input. As mentioned, I own a Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial with a bezel diameter of 41mm, a lug-to-lug of 48.133mm, and a thickness of 15.113mm. I don't have a scale here at home, but I'm willing to bet the 300MC probably weighs more than the PO 2500. Would you happen to know the true lug-to-lug and thickness of the PO by any chance? The weight would also be helpful for comparison sake. Truth be told, I don't pay too much attention to the numbers anymore. I prefer to to get a feel for the watch on the wrist. Going strictly by the numbers I almost completely wrote off the Seamaster Pro Diver 300m until I actually tried it on at my AD and it fit quite well.

Your Sub looks great by the way. Mind sharing your wrist size?

Thanks again!

Rene

 

[solesman]

Hi PQ,

Thanks for the input. As mentioned, I own a Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial with a bezel diameter of 41mm, a lug-to-lug of 48.133mm, and a thickness of 15.113mm. I don't have a scale here at home, but I'm willing to bet the 300MC probably weighs more than the PO 2500. Would you happen to know the true lug-to-lug and thickness of the PO by any chance? The weight would also be helpful for comparison sake. Truth be told, I don't pay too much attention to the numbers anymore. I prefer to to get a feel for the watch on the wrist. Going strictly by the numbers I almost completely wrote off the Seamaster Pro Diver 300m until I actually tried it on at my AD and it fit quite well.

Your Sub looks great by the way. Mind sharing your wrist size?

Thanks again!

Rene

Hi René,

Great to see this thread gaining traction

As you own the 300 MC I can confirm that you’ll be fine with the 2500 PO. As you know I had the Spectre 300 and that wore much larger than my PO LM LE. Hence why I sold it on in part. Although the lug to lug of the 300 MC is 48.133mm, when you actually measure from end link to endlink it’s around 51mm so it wears quite large on the wrist with the straight lugs

The 2500 PO lug to lug is a few mm less at 48mm and 14.3mm thick also. Very similar in fact to your Speedmaster Pro.

The 2500 PO is a great watch, but this one as ProjectQuattro and Tino suggested would be great. Give you some Mercedes hands instead of broad arrows to mix things up a bit.

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[solesman]

Oh and my wrist is 7in and round for the record. Compared to the PO, the Sub wears so much nicer. The slim profile is a real pleasure on the wrist.

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[ProjectQuattro]

Hi PQ,

Thanks for the input. As mentioned, I own a Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial with a bezel diameter of 41mm, a lug-to-lug of 48.133mm, and a thickness of 15.113mm. I don't have a scale here at home, but I'm willing to bet the 300MC probably weighs more than the PO 2500. Would you happen to know the true lug-to-lug and thickness of the PO by any chance? The weight would also be helpful for comparison sake. Truth be told, I don't pay too much attention to the numbers anymore. I prefer to to get a feel for the watch on the wrist. Going strictly by the numbers I almost completely wrote off the Seamaster Pro Diver 300m until I actually tried it on at my AD and it fit quite well.

Your Sub looks great by the way. Mind sharing your wrist size?

Thanks again!

Rene

Solesman beat me to the punch with the specs, it seems! The only thing not mentioned was the weight; the PO is 179 grams which is about 20g more than your Seamaster Co-axial. I wear it on a rubber deployant strap and it's still a weighty thing.

My wrist is 7" also; the Sub fit is basically perfect for me.


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[Titan II]

Ahh, okay, I'm with you now, René. Amazing how your Seamaster 300 can take on a bluish tinge in certain lighting.

Okay, given what I know now, I'd still say go for the PO 42mm. To be honest, I'm not au faix with the current line-up in the Seamaster 300 range. Over the past year, though, I have to admit that they have grown on me, but with a PO, a WatchCo Seamaster 300 and a Bond Seamaster, I feel that my Omega dive watch stable is full enough.

Just had a look at the current OP in 36mm and yes, I don't like the double-stick markers either.
Regarding 34mm Rolex OPs, given that you also have a 6.5 inch wrist, 34 is a classic size, but I can understand why you feel it may be too small. I too have gotten used to 36mm, but whenever I try on a vintage DateJust in 34mil, it just slots onto my wrist nicely. I have a vintage Tudor which has been 'under repair' for almost three years and it is 34mm. Here's a photo from November 2013;

View attachment 15081143

Ultimate test for you would be to try an OP on if you get the chance.
Regarding the Explorer, there's always pre-owned in 36mm.

Vintage watches

I agree with the same issues. Service costs are bad enough, but the cost of parts! I paid about $450 AUD each for two genuine bezel inserts for my 5513. Yes, they were still sealed in their original plastic, but that's a stupid price to pay for a 40mm ring of aluminium.
Of course, the good news is that these parts will always be worth what I paid for them, if not more, as time rolls on. So, in that respect, I (probably) won't lose out.

As such, for me, the wearability becomes a concern. I'm currently wearing the Sub as I write this, because well, what's the worst that can happen while I sit at the kitchen table in front of my laptop?
And that's the problem. Given the cost and availability of parts for this thing, while it hasn't become a safe queen, it doesn't exactly get worn with reckless abandon either.
If I were a richer man, with a watchmaker who could access Rolex parts reasonably easily, then I wouldn't worry so much.

And yes, the history and patina is a wonderful thing. I can't look at this Sub without images of Bond, mid-'70s TIME Magazine war correspondents and photographers, Robert Redford in All The President's Men, and Steve McQueen (alright, he wore a 5512, but close enough, I say) all flitting across my mind's eye. The hand and marker lume have aged just right, to an off-white creamy patina. If they ever continue aging to that (IMHO) dreadful 'pumpkin' shade of pale orange, then I'll get rid of the watch.
I may still end up selling it once I've had the BB58 for a year or so. I'll see what happens.

Sub 14060M- A perfect choice. Enough of the good DNA of past models and by now, these watches already have their own history and patina. Definitely worth serious consideration. Very definitely.

Anyway, I gotta run. See you on the WRUW post later today, René!

Yes, a visit to my AD is already on the cards. A soon as the virus restrictions are relaxed and they have a white 34mil and 39mil in stock they are going to let me know so I can stop in and throw them on the wrist. That 34mm TUDOR looks fantastic on your wrist. If the 39mm OP looks even a tiny bit too big for me, and the 34mm looks anything close to that TUDOR on you then that would be my choice out of those two. The only drawback I can see to the 34mil is the 19mm lug width, but that's not a deal breaker because it can share straps with my Railmaster.

Here are some of pictures of the Explorer, the Diver 300M, and the 41mm AT on my wrist:













René

 

[Sloopjohnb]

They all look good on your wrist, Rene.

Of the three, the Ex would be my favourite, and I don‘t think it would interfere with the RM.
The 300 on the other hand may to too close to the 300MC.
And I am not really a fan of the new AT, the dial, the PCLs and the blue.

Curious to see how the 34 and 39 OP will look on your wrist when your AD has them. Or maybe a used 36mm Ex (which I really like but my wrist is smaller than yours)?

 

[solesman]

As John has said you can pull off any of them. Nice problem to have. I’m also curious to see the 34mm and 39mm OP on your wrist soon. Be sure to try out a five digit Sub too


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[solesman]

I’m not sure if you’re on Instagram René? I highly recommend it though as you can follow hashtags of watches you like and see lots of real life shots. It’s always helped

Anyway, Rob aka Buchmann.69 who posts on here has posted this shot of his Tudor Sub so I thought I would share it here


https://www.instagram.com/p/B_tIMIwHxlZ/?igshid=15fga213i6ql


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[Titan II]

They all look good on your wrist, Rene.

Of the three, the Ex would be my favourite, and I don‘t think it would interfere with the RM.
The 300 on the other hand may to too close to the 300MC.
And I am not really a fan of the new AT, the dial, the PCLs and the blue.

Curious to see how the 34 and 39 OP will look on your wrist when your AD has them. Or maybe a used 36mm Ex (which I really like but my wrist is smaller than yours)?

Thanks John!

The Explorer was actually the one that I had pegged as my next purchase. My purchases are usually emotional ones. I find that I'm true to myself when I buy that way. In the past I've tried not to complicate matters with facts and figures. Please don't misunderstand; I learn all I can about the watch and try it on at the AD before purchasing. I find that my initial instinct and attraction to the watch is usually bang on.

The Diver 300M and the 300MC are definitely close and do overlap a little. I'm considering the 300M because I consider it a tool diver, whereas the 300MC is more on the dressy side with it's polished upper lugs, centre links, and inner stainless steel bezel ring. Add to that the ceramic bezel and it's a pretty shiny watch. I know that with 300M is a little blingy as well, but I think it'll wear scratches and dings a lot better that the 300MC. I hope that makes sense.

That AT isn't in the running at all, and for all the same reasons you mentioned. I consider the AT to be a good crossover sport/dress watch. For that reason I think the 41mm is also too big to play the part, even if it fits my wrist okay. The blue of the Skyfall is one of the main reasons for putting that watch on my list. The other is the 38.5mil size. I've tried one on many years ago when I went to try on my Speedmaster. I already loved the Skyfall back then (thanks Dan), but all my attention was on the Speedy. We'll see how I do with the height. I don't think that'll pose a problem though. On the other hand, the overall proportions might. We'll see.

A preowned 36mm Explorer is definitely back on the table now that I'm looking at possibly buying preowned again. I've been very weary about the preowned market, especially when it comes to older watches in the Explorer, Sub 14060M, and Tudor 79090 category. I just have to make sure I know more about the watches I'm looking to buy that the people who are selling them.

When I'm able I will visit my AD and take some pictures with the 34, 36, and 39mm OPs...if they have them all...and I will post here.

Cheers John!

Rene

 

[NMGE17]

I have to be honest I’ve not tried a lot of the watches on your list so it is difficult to bring a personal view to the table. However as I read Through I get the impression you have a good idea the look you’re after, it will come down to the right size on your wrist. I’m sure you’re looking forward to when you can spend time in an AD and I wish you luck with your choice.

Nigel

 

[Titan II]

I have to be honest I’ve not tried a lot of the watches on your list so it is difficult to bring a personal view to the table. However as I read Through I get the impression you have a good idea the look you’re after, it will come down to the right size on your wrist. I’m sure you’re looking forward to when you can spend time in an AD and I wish you luck with your choice.

Nigel

You're right, Nigel. There are two clear front runners for me right now, although I'm not going to say which ones they are.

Having a couple of years to save before being able to afford my next watch I thought I'd take a look at some of the other watches that are at the top of my "of interest" list. That opened up a whole can of worms.

On the bright side, I have time to really learn the ins and outs of these watches. At present I'm digging deep into the different references of the ROLEX Submariner starting back at the 1680 - paying particular attention to the no-date iterations and specifically the 14060M.

Yes, I'm definitely looking forward to getting some of these pieces on my wrist and giving them some serious thought and attention.

Thanks for your thoughts! Please drop some more insight if anything else should happen to occur to you.

Best,

René

Because there can never be too many pictures;


*Picture borrowed from the internet.

 

[Titan II]

As John has said you can pull off any of them. Nice problem to have. I’m also curious to see the 34mm and 39mm OP on your wrist soon. Be sure to try out a five digit Sub too

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Hi Dan!

Being able to pull them all off sure doesn't make it any easier. However, as you have said in the past, the thrill is in the hunt/chase.

I'll be sure to post some pictures here once I get the chance to try on some of them...especially the 34 and 36mm OPs. I'm dying to see how they look on wrist.

René

 

[Titan II]

I’m not sure if you’re on Instagram René? I highly recommend it though as you can follow hashtags of watches you like and see lots of real life shots. It’s always helped

Anyway, Rob aka Buchmann.69 who posts on here has posted this shot of his Tudor Sub so I thought I would share it here

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_tIMIwHxlZ/?igshid=15fga213i6ql


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Yeah, I've been admiring Rob's TUDOR Sub for quite some time, both here and on the ROLEX/TUDOR sub forums. It sure is a beauty. From what I've seen they're right I there in price pretty close to the 14060M.

Thanks for the inspiration!

René

 

[teeritz]

...On the bright side, I have time to really learn the ins and outs of these watches. At present I'm digging deep into the different references of the ROLEX Submariner starting back at the 1680 - paying particular attention to the no-date iterations and specifically the 14060M.

First, I read this recent Hodinkee article on Submariner history. Then I cut and pasted it into my computer as a Word document, proof-read it (sorry, Hodinkee!), shrunk down some photos, changed the font here and there, etc.
The original article is here, René;

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-submariner-reference-points