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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings,

I have recently purchased a citizen cosmotron 7803-790941 which uses the 313 battery which has been discontinued due to the fact that it used mercury. I have been able to find similar battery but I have a few questions.

First example would be the Button Cell Battery SR44SW. This battery is listed as the replacement for the 313 with size matching but now it's 1.5v compared to the 313s 1.35v. would this battery work or will the watch be running fast due to higher voltage?.

The next battery would be MRB675 1.35V Zinc-Air Battery. As it is the same 1.35v but it is a zinc-air battery and considering that a watch is sealed will this battery type cause any problem?

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Discussion Starter #3
The silver oxide will be fine, the zinc-air is designed for hearing aids and isn't suitable for watches.
Thanks for the quick reply. Do you think the change in voltage will have any affect on the watch? Or should it run regularly?
 

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Thanks for the quick reply. Do you think the change in voltage will have any affect on the watch? Or should it run regularly?
Rate is not a function of voltage. Like Joe said...it will be just fine. DO NOT USE the zinc-air...it depends on oxygen and carbon dioxide from atmospheric air...which are in short supply in a water resistant case. It has been reported that Zn-air damage movements...
Regards, BG
 

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I had a talk with a regional sales rep of a major battery brand a while back. Part of the conversation touched zinc air batteries. In summary, he said the way zinc air batteries are constructed, the outer shell of the battery is the same material as what is inside. Basically battery acid inside “eats” through X (i assume zinc based material?) inside. Once X has been consumed, the acid will then slowly start eating away at the shell (because it’s the dame material as it’s food). He said these types of batteries must be changed as soon as they die. He mentioned, back in the 80s and 90s when boomboxes were in, if you remember seeing battery leaks in your radio, those are zinc air types. He said this technology has been around for like 100 years, and does not recommend useage on anything of value.


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Rate is not a function of voltage. Like Joe said...it will be just fine. DO NOT USE the zinc-air...it depends on oxygen and carbon dioxide from atmospheric air...which are in short supply in a water resistant case. It has been reported that Zn-air damage movements...
Regards, BG

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had a talk with a regional sales rep of a major battery brand a while back. Part of the conversation touched zinc air batteries. In summary, he said the way zinc air batteries are constructed, the outer shell of the battery is the same material as what is inside. Basically battery acid inside “eats” through X (i assume zinc based material?) inside. Once X has been consumed, the acid will then slowly start eating away at the shell (because it’s the dame material as it’s food). He said these types of batteries must be changed as soon as they die. He mentioned, back in the 80s and 90s when boomboxes were in, if you remember seeing battery leaks in your radio, those are zinc air types. He said this technology has been around for like 100 years, and does not recommend useage on anything of value.


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Thanks for the great info, that's what I was worried about. The fact that it needs air and the watch is water resistant
 

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Of course, if it has not been serviced, this would be a good time to complete that task. Quartz movements should be regularly maintained.
Regards, BG
 

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Of course, if it has not been serviced, this would be a good time to complete that task. Quartz movements should be regularly maintained.
Regards, BG
Considering I picked the watch up for $10 in the following condition I don't plan up service it unless I can do it my self. As of right now I have about 6 hours into cleaning it

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Would be a real shame not to service that. The 7804 is a rare old beast and a nice bit of real horological history - not to mention a brilliantly quirky day / date quick-set!

Because it's an electronic balance driven movement, and high beat (36000bph) will suffer wear far more than a quartz would if it's run dry, and it will be dry by now!
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
That's true but I can't afford a few hundred dollar service on a watch when I keep buying watches.

Recently I picked up 0330, 1930, A730, A780 and 2730 movement watches which were all originally supposed to be +-10 spy. And has left little money for a while.


So I might have to wait a while before putting in a battery and letting it run I guess
 

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That's true but I can't afford a few hundred dollar service on a watch when I keep buying watches.

Recently I picked up 0330, 1930, A730, A780 and 2730 movement watches which were all originally supposed to be +-10 spy. And has left little money for a while.


So I might have to wait a while before putting in a battery and letting it run I guess
It won't hurt to try it out, just leaving it running for any length of time would be a biy unkind to a nearly 50 year old survivor!
 

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Hi Joe,
...not to mention a brilliantly quirky day / date quick-set!
Yes, this is outstanding, sophisticated, simple or what ever. Unfortunately the engineers didn't consider that every movement meets a dumb tinker sooner or later. The remark "don't oil" obviously does not help. All of these movements ever dropped on my feet had a sticking quickset lever, and all of them followed gravity immediately after only dabbing oil off with Rodico.

I described all in detail in my archive:
Although the opinion that much oil is always better than none is indestructible, I desperately hope that a resonable fraction of tinkers read it before flooding the movement with oil.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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That's true but I can't afford a few hundred dollar service on a watch when I keep buying watches.

Recently I picked up 0330, 1930, A730, A780 and 2730 movement watches which were all originally supposed to be +-10 spy. And has left little money for a while.


So I might have to wait a while before putting in a battery and letting it run I guess
Therein lies the rub. Quality or quantity...
I am a watchmaker...so I do my own work...it still costs me $...not just in materials, but in the time I could be spending on paying work.
Regards, BG
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi Joe,

Yes, this is outstanding, sophisticated, simple or what ever. Unfortunately the engineers didn't consider that every movement meets a dumb tinker sooner or later. The remark "don't oil" obviously does not help. All of these movements ever dropped on my feet had a sticking quickset lever, and all of them followed gravity immediately after only dabbing oil off with Rodico.

I described all in detail in my archive:
Although the opinion that much oil is always better than none is indestructible, I desperately hope that a resonable fraction of tinkers read it before flooding the movement with oil.

Regards, Roland Ranfft

Thanks you for the input and seeing that you have serviced these watches before what should I try to do as part of a service before putting in the battery?
 

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Therein lies the rub. Quality or quantity...
I am a watchmaker...so I do my own work...it still costs me $...not just in materials, but in the time I could be spending on paying work.
Regards, BG
But that is the problem, the watches I have been buying are quality watches as well. I have started collecting +-10SPY watches made by citizen as I wish to test how they perform 30 to 40 years after release. Seeing if they can still keep the -+10SPY or not.
 

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Hi there.
---and seeing that you have serviced these watches before what should I try to do as part of a service before putting in the battery?
I actually don't service many watches, just now and then some of mine, especially if an issue is not the daily job for a watchmaker.. I don't feel unable to do ordinary service, and I don't believe that my watchmaker does it better. But surely he does it more efficient than me, due to his experience and skills. So I better leave most jobs to him, and get the necessary money better with my profession - under the line the more economical approach.

However, I uncase zillions of movements for my archive, and when I notice an issue which can be fixed easily if the movement is once naked, I fix it of course. And a sticking quickset-date lever is obviously typical for these Citizen thingys, and it can be fixed quick and dirty with Rodico, or more professionally with acetone or its overpaid alternative "One Dip".

But now to the general treatment of movements with electrical or electronical balance motor: In a mechanical watch the power is transferred from the source (mainspring) to the sink (balance) over a gear train, accompanied with high bearing pressures, and friction loss. Therefore such movements simply stop, due to debris in bearings and missing or degraded lubricants, before an ultimate disaster happens.

Watches with balance motor are completely different: The power is transfered directly from the source (now the battery) to the sink (still the balance). The train to move the feather-light hands runs vitually idle - no measurable friction loss, almost no wear there. So these movemens run until they have powderised their balance pivots, and then it is too late to wash and lubricate them. And even worse: The balance with its magnets or coils is rather heavy, and this does not reduce wear.

For a collector's thingy which is just buckled on once a while, wear due to missing service is no real problen. With few wrist days per year, you'll need centuries to kill it. For a battery watch you should just take out the battery if you put it back ino a drawer for months or even years. Batteries may leak and the flowing out stuff is not friendly to metals.

Finally the battery: Balance motors are not sensitive against moderately varying voltage. Some electronically controlled even are designed to become independent of the voltage. So simply take what you get, and what fills the hole in the movement.without help of a hammer.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 
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