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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Need help with vintage Longines-Weems Hour Angle ID

Hi,

I bought this over the weekend and need help with a date and any other information I can get, I wrote to Longines with the S/N on friday but have no reply yet.


I have never seen a small Longines Hour Angle watch before (31.5mm bezel), it has a 12.68Z centre second movement S/N 5749951.
(The 2:00 crown rotates the outer part of the face).



This is the only photo I have, until it arrives from England.

I have looked at dozens of Longines photos and as far as I can see, Longines only started putting the 'winged hourglass' on the faces of watches in the early 1950s, maybe the face has been restored and had the logo applied then?
(It looks like a very nice original face though!).

Was it some special made in the 1950s or was it a short run in the late 1930s/early 1940s with 12.58Z just before the 12.68N went into production?


I don't know the history of the 12.68 type movements, so I'm just guessing!

Anyway, I guess I will have to wait until it arrives so I can post more photos, hear from Longines and from Longines collectors.

cheers,

-John
 

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According to my list of serial numbers this watch was made in 1937. The winged hourglass has been around since 1890, so it could have been used in 1937 I suppose.
The European experts will likely be able to tell you more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thanks very much Ray!!!


I think I might have discovered a little gem!

I sent an email to the seller with a photo of a 12.68Z CS movement, he said it was simular but the CS bridge was different.


(I know that the Longines Logo is pre-1900 but I still have not seen it on pre-1950 faces, unless this is some kind of 1937 special edition).

What do you think about the hands? do they look original to the watch, the minute hand look quite long but is this something to do with the hour angle bezel?


cheers,

-John
 

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My area of expertise is American pocket watches prior to 1920, so I'll leave further comments to those more knowledgeable about Longines. Sorry.
 

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Thanks very much Ray!!!


I think I might have discovered a little gem!

I sent an email to the seller with a photo of a 12.68Z CS movement, he said it was simular but the CS bridge was different.


(I know that the Longines Logo is pre-1900 but I still have not seen it on pre-1950 faces, unless this is some kind of 1937 special edition).

What do you think about the hands? do they look original to the watch, the minute hand look quite long but is this something to do with the hour angle bezel?

The winged hourglass has been in constant use. It's absence is sometimes an indicator of a 'restored' dial.

The hands look like they are from that period... but there are Weems collectors who can definitive answers. Maybe one will drop by...
 

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Hi John, i think your Weems had wrong hands and dial.
Here's a picture of the same watch with GF case, all original, it belongs to a friend of mine.
When you'll receive yours, take a shot of movement and SN, we can compare they both.

Ciao, Aldo.:-!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Hi Aldo,

the seller told me that "the crown at 2:00 turns the inner chapter ring" (I took that to mean the ring with the seconds marked on the outer part of the dial).

This watch might just be a more modern version of the type that your friend owns, the dial on his is a minature version of the earlier Lindberg watch with the seconds marked on the inner part of the face..........


I have written an email to the seller and asked him to confirm what he told me about the face previously, (if the face is just a normal one piece then it's not correct (and it does look like a normal one piece face)........ It also shound have more markings to do with the hour angle system.


-John
 

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Hi John, interesting matter.
Anyway, this type of rotating bezel with enamelled numerals had to be dated around 1930-1940.
This 12.68 movement had to be with the small CS bridge.
Faked hands and redial 100%. IMHO.

About the crown at 2 hours, i have not found any similar so far, apart the usual for locking the bezel.
But obviously there are a lot of watches still to be discovered like little gems.
So waiting for further pictures could be the right thing.

Cheers, Aldo.:-!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hi,

I'm sure now that it is a very rare small Longines-Weems Hour Angle watch with a fairly scarce 12.68Z movement as per your friend's watch (with the mechanism for rotateing the centre chapter).
BUT it has a one piece face instead of a two piece face, the centre chapter should be separate of course and the outer fixed part of the face is not there either.

I have talked with the seller and he's (very nicely) agreed to take it back, he did advise me not to buy it but only mentioned that it had a different movement than the normal 12.68 types he had seen.
(I'll send more photos ASAP (maybe ther's a NOS set of dials and hands at Longines waiting for me?!):think:

cheers,

-John
 

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I agree with you, this is a very rare watch.
My friend managed a lot to find that GF model, he is a great Longines collector.
About the two pieces dial, they could have replaced the original with a generic for 12.68 with the usual three dial feet.

My suggestion is to keep the watch if not too expensive, maybe try to find out a silvered dial with a blued set of hands maybe from a donor '40es gents watch in order to wear it.

About the original dials, my experience leads to patience and luck.;-)

Cheers, Aldo.:-!
 

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The winged hourglass has been in constant use. It's absence is sometimes an indicator of a 'restored' dial.
I've done some more digging and would have to revise this answer... post 1940 the winged hourglass seems to be consistently used on the dial. Prior to this it is harder to say. Tanq (rectangular shaped) watches often seem to have only a 'Longines' on the dial. Round watches seem to have it frequently...

The winged hourglass is not printed but rather is a separate piece of trim. Redialers seem to have trouble with them and often leave them off when doing a face.

The font used to represent 'Longines' is often a giveaway on a redial. Original fonts are frequently thinner than the redial fonts.

Looking at the originally posted watch, the dial seems too clean and crisp compared to the bezel... Many of the Weems dials I have seen have been in pretty sorry shape -- I guess folks actually found them useful watches and really used them! |>
 

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The Longines "winged hourglass" can be an applied piece or simply printed on the dial but is most often applied. As you have discovered it is not always present on Longines watches. Most "tank" watches from the 30s and early 40s will not have this logo. It becomes more common in the later 40s & 50s.

A re-dialer would not leave off the applied logo when refinishing a dial as this would leave two holes in the dial. Removing and re-applying markers on the dial is a standard part of doing a re-dial job.
 
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