[adlee9]

Hi guys,

I've been lurking around on the forums on and off for sometime, and rarely post, so please forgive my sudden request for assistance from y'all.. But the need is great, and in time of desperation, I turn to you.. hope you guys don't mind

I am visiting Hong Kong for just 3 days, and on my second day (today) I walked into a shop selling the watch I've been looking for for the longest time... a 6159-7000, profesional 300m Dive watch from 1968!

I was obviously thrilled, and found out that he was selling at about US$ 4700. Even though it seems on the high end of prices (I have not been updated on prices recently), its a rare find and I am really tempted to pull the trigger.

Here are some pictures and I sincerely apologies for the poor pictures, my hands were literally trembling as I took the pictures!

So the questions I have are

1) Does it look like the parts are all original?
2) Does it look like the watch has been modified/polished/damaged in any way?
3) If I were to purchase it and the movement is not as ideal as it should be, would it cost me a bomb to make it all well again?
4) anything I should look out for or ask before purchasing the watch?


I'm in a bit of a dilemma as the watch is priced more than I expected (just a little bit!) SHOULD I even purchase the watch at that price?

I really only have half a day left tomorrow in the city, so I really do appreciate any comments that might come and the time you would take to reply, especially if its in time for me to decide if I should make the purchase.

Thank you!

 

[teatimecrumpet]

Don't know much about the watch...but i do see a fair amount of scratches on the case which might be a plus if it means it wasn't refinished. That bezel insert looks suspect though bc it's too pristine considering the wear on the rest of the watch. The bezel lume pip does look level though which if it wasn't would is a dead giveaway for for being am for the more common vintage seikos.

Strap obviously not original.

For this price on a visit...you'll def want to see the inside.

And it's hong kong so you'll have to haggle. Stay firm and see what he says. You had better chances your first time there. A second trip means you want it. You want to show up with cash.

While not knowing what a good price on this watch is. I still take 25% off what is fair and stick to it. Haggling is not a 10minute thing. My buddy haggled for an hour before he got his price on an expensive camera. Hold firm.

But remember this isn't someone you can easily visit and deal with in case something goes wrong in a month.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

 

[teatimecrumpet]

Just checked sold ebay listings and only found 3 at around $2k.

Checked lionseek and found a listing from hk for a 7001 @$4k. Maybe same seller as yours?

Saw an april 2014 ad for $3.5k

I dont know...seems pretty rare but i'd stick to like $3k to $3.2k.

But again weigh the risks bc seller is far from you. If you can drop that money without feeling the hurt then go for it.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

 

[adlee9]

Hey thanks for the opinions!

My apologies I didn't get your point about the lume pip? Is it good that its in the condition that its in?

I forgot to add that the seller did say that the crystal had been replaced as the previous one was too scratched up, so you're right, that might be an indication that the bezel insert has been replaced.

I checked Lionseek too (thanks for the tip!) and the particular one from HK seems to have a mark below the 50 min mark of the bezel, the one that I saw is really pristine and no marks can be seen, so it seems like a different one. Also the link does not work (and its from Dec 2013) too.

I agree I should have haggled more the first time.. I know I should have but I was a little nervous seeing the watch and in quite good condition too, the Bezel as you mentioned and the Dial too. The Lume looks really clean too. I'm still in 2 minds if I should get it given the probably work done on it?

Price is a bit above what I'd pay, but it is rather difficult to find though...

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[drainaps]

I have no particular experience with 6159s (I wish I had ) but I do have quite a lot of experience with HK dealers in another of my watch passions, a well-known Swiss Brand. I'm Asia -based, which makes me visit HK regularly for business and pleasure.

UNLESS you know your stuff and can tell inside out if all major parts in the watch (dial, hands, crown, case, movement) are original, service replacements or much worse, do not spend money on it.

As for the advice given on getting 25% off the listed price.....it will not happen. I'd go a bit further, if it happened, I'd definitely. run from the watch.

HK watch dealers are a thousand-battle-hardened lot and I don't see them budging for a foreigner on a 4K watch. Sorry to sound wary, but I know the field a bit. Enjoy Hong Kong.

 

[Aifo]

Another Hong Konger here and agree with everything drainaps said. I would say stay away from it. HK is heaven for "brand new" or slightly-used watch shopping, not so for vintages....

 

[bombora]

$4800 is probably a bit high for a 6159. But not much for an unmolested example.
The case appears unpolished and the top chamfers look good.
The crown is correct and looks nice.
The dial is great and could be original lume. These professional models keep their white very well if the moisture is kept at bay and they have been out of the light. There are plenty around with great dials. Check the NOS one for sale on eprey right now.
If the dial and hands have been relumed, it is a very good job.
Also the red dot on the second hand is faded, which points to no relume.
The bezel and insert are in great shape.
Hard/impossible to check the movement, but these hands are specific to 6159/6215 models so fitting them onto a different movement would be problematic. Check the hand to shaft fit with a loupe.

Go for it.

 

[Hale color]

The fact that your hands were trembling when you took the photos tells me that you were very smitten. I'd say trust your instincts, make a fair offer and stand firm. Good luck!

 

[adlee9]

Hey guys,

Just to update, I ended up not purchasing the watch from what in the end was a rather dodgy dealer.

Firstly he was extremely reluctant to open up the case, and would only agree if I paid first. When I mentioned that the price was dependent on the condition of the movement would affect the price, he refused to drop the price. His reason for not dropping the price was - its a hard to find watch, the price is a take it or leave it.

In the end we got into a slightly heated discussion on the state of service in Hong Kong and I just walked off. I contemplated going back to talk more as it was a difficult watch to find, but I thought - buy the seller more than the watch.. so.. there goes my baby...

 

[bombora]

Don't worry, there are plenty more out there. Check on Yahoo Japan.

 

[drainaps]

Don't want to sound like a smart ass here, but I'm not in the least surprised. I've had similar [email protected] on much more expensive watches from a number of HK dealers. I can understand they're tired of window shoppers, but hey, nobody is ready to dump 4k on a useless heap of metal. There's a face component that most westerners do not grasp, unless you're familiar with the local way of doing business, but hongkongers are familiar with western ways of doing business and in many cases, if they don't adapt, it's because they don't want.

I'm curious to know who the dealer is, as I've seen this exact sourly reaction from one of them on a Swiss watch I was interested in, and the guy also had some nice vintage Seikos....I'd appreciate if you PM'd me the name of the Dealer.

Fate had it the watch was not to be yours. You probably saved yourself some headaches.

Hey guys,

Just to update, I ended up not purchasing the watch from what in the end was a rather dodgy dealer.

Firstly he was extremely reluctant to open up the case, and would only agree if I paid first. When I mentioned that the price was dependent on the condition of the movement would affect the price, he refused to drop the price. His reason for not dropping the price was - its a hard to find watch, the price is a take it or leave it.

In the end we got into a slightly heated discussion on the state of service in Hong Kong and I just walked off. I contemplated going back to talk more as it was a difficult watch to find, but I thought - buy the seller more than the watch.. so.. there goes my baby...

 

[roninja]

Good thing brother!!! Had I seen this post earlier, I would've just said to stand away. China, Hong Kong, and Singapore are notorious for making phony "vintage" watches using old watch parts. A dead giveaway would be if the watch doesn't hack or is unable to be hand wound. The 6159 had these two features, which was extraordinary in its time. Alot of cheap end Seiko and Citizen automatics nowadays are notorious for having been made with the non-hacking Miyota 8215 movement. Developed in the 1950's by Citizen, it was the most accurate movement when it came out. However, like other forms of technology, it has been superseded by much more superior movements. I remember when I was in high school, one of my Japanese friends had a watch made by Miyota (in those days, anything Japanese in the US was considered cool). I complimented him on the watch but he just brushed it off saying it was a cheap US$20 watch, not worth buying.

Also, my former martial arts instructor told me that when he was a youth, he worked at a watch company in Hong Kong that refurbished Seikos and Citizen watches to sell to tourists. He said that the company paid scrap collectors in Japan some money so they would send over the rejects made by Seiko and Citizen (back then, reject watches were simply thrown into a large garbage box and later disposed of fully intact, not destroyed). By the time these rejects arrived, only a few were still in good working condition to be sold (most of them got damaged during shipping). Anything that was salvageable, they replaced with their own parts and passed them off as new and genuine. Got my rift??? It's still common to see in some night markets in Hong Kong and Taiwan Seiko's and Citizens that cost very cheap, but are sold with the knowledge that they're not covered by the warranty of the parent company. Like counterfeit watches in NYC, these are very big businesses and reap in very huge profits.

Looking at your watch, it looks like a knock-off. The face, bezel, and lume look too new to be from the 1960's and 1970's. The only thing original I can tell is the case. About the inside of the watch, I have no guarantees whatsoever.

Hey guys,

Just to update, I ended up not purchasing the watch from what in the end was a rather dodgy dealer.

Firstly he was extremely reluctant to open up the case, and would only agree if I paid first. When I mentioned that the price was dependent on the condition of the movement would affect the price, he refused to drop the price. His reason for not dropping the price was - its a hard to find watch, the price is a take it or leave it.

In the end we got into a slightly heated discussion on the state of service in Hong Kong and I just walked off. I contemplated going back to talk more as it was a difficult watch to find, but I thought - buy the seller more than the watch.. so.. there goes my baby...

 

[zuiko]

You need a time machine..... the thread is a 3year old zombie