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ISO 6425 hasn't been revised since 2018, so why is this sudden decision to squeeze unsightly lume pips in because of it? Have they been doing it wrong and falsely claiming the watches without them comply with it for 3 years? I don't think so, so it just looks purely like bad aesthetic design decisions to me.

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It takes time to make engineering changes. It's not like a new standard comes out and suddenly all manufacturers are instantly compliant with it the next day; no, it, takes time for all those new changes to filter down through the design and manufacturing process. The lume pips at 3 o'clock that we started seeing within the past year seem to be the direct result of the 2018 standard update.
 

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ISO 6425 hasn't been revised since 2018, so why is this sudden decision to squeeze unsightly lume pips in because of it? Have they been doing it wrong and falsely claiming the watches without them comply with it for 3 years? I don't think so, so it just looks purely like bad aesthetic design decisions to me.
How would this decision not have been sudden? It's digital. The watches either have a lume pip, or they don't... :). As to false claims, you'd have to check the terms of ISO 6425 and what implementation period applies.

I assume ISO compliance now requires lumed markers all around (I haven't read it, I'm going on the received wisdom of the insternet, as inadvisable as that is). If that is the case, and Seiko's "thing" is to maintain compliance across the entire range, then that's what they do. If they decide they can't do it whilst retaining an elegant dial layout, they can decide not to. If the market reaction is overwhelmingly negative, should they just persevere with it? Probably not, since people spend most of their time taking pictures of their watches for social media, rather than diving professionally with them!
 

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If the market reaction is overwhelmingly negative, should they just persevere with it? Probably not, since people spend most of their time taking pictures of their watches for social media, rather than diving professionally with them!
I agree they probably shouldn't. If compliance comes at the cost of aesthetics, which is our main reason for buying their watches, I wouldn't care if they dropped it. I mean they can still make them to meet very high standards needed for diving without ruining the look of them, they've done it plenty of times. I'm glad I got my SLA MM300 before they ruined it anyway. I have to say as well that despite liking a date on a watch, they look better without it, and that would solve the problem.

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So the 2018 change to ISO6425 standards states that every hour marker must be lumed. Seiko has to have a lumed hour marker or they can’t certify it as an ISO6425 dive watch.

A lumed date window wheel wouldnt be compliant. If you started a dive at 23:50 and then a few minutes later the date changed, there’d be no lumed hour marker where the date window is as it wouldn’t be glowing or visible after the date changes.
 

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So the 2018 change to ISO6425 standards states that every hour marker must be lumed. Seiko has to have a lumed hour marker or they can’t certify it as an ISO6425 dive watch.

A lumed date window wheel wouldnt be compliant. If you started a dive at 23:50 and then a few minutes later the date changed, there’d be no lumed hour marker where the date window is as it wouldn’t be glowing or visible after the date changes.
Don't want to be pedantic, but no it doesn't say that.

It says:

4.2.2 In the dark
Exposure to light shall be made in accordance with ISO 17514:2004, Clause 4. Minimum 180 min after the exposure, the visibility and readability of the following items shall be checked at a distance of 25 cm in the dark:
— the time (the minute indicator shall be clearly distinguishable from the hour indicator);
— the diving time, which shall be legible with an uncertainty of ±2,5 min or less;
— for analogue displays, the markings indicating every 5 min;
— the indication that the watch is running;
— in the case of battery-powered watch, the battery end-of-life indication.
It says the visibility and readability shall be checked. It does not say that there must be a lume marker every 5 min. This is not that clear cut, and the fact it's taken them 2 years to start putting an extra lume pip on when they pump out new watches all the time, is what makes me think it's not a hard requirement. To be honest this probably is the reason for the 3 o'clock lume, but I remain a bit sceptical.
 

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Brand new ISO 6425 diver's watch from Certina that came out about 2 months ago, with no 3 o'clock lume. Thoughts re: the absence of the lume plot? Still trying to catch up on a 3 year old spec revision? Unlikely.
 

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Don't want to be pedantic, but no it doesn't say that.

It says:



It says the visibility and readability shall be checked. It does not say that there must be a lume marker every 5 min. This is not that clear cut, and the fact it's taken them 2 years to start putting an extra lume pip on when they pump out new watches all the time, is what makes me think it's not a hard requirement. To be honest this probably is the reason for the 3 o'clock lume, but I remain a bit sceptical.
– – the visibility and readability of the following items shall be checked at a distance of 25 cm in the dark:
— for analogue displays, the markings indicating every 5 min – –


I'd say a lume pip helps a lot with the visibility of every 5 min marker. Tritium works, too.
 

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@Pongster Here is a couple of thread I wrote recently. Brought it on pre-order on day 1 release as an impluse buy due to the rose gold PVD on a slim turtle est case. Just could not ignore it.

I am not sure why this is not so popular as I don't even see a youtube review from the regulars youtubers. I guess if it a silm diver, with a 120 clicks rotating bezel, it would be more popular. The other colourways are also gorgous imo, the blue/grey and green/khaki/grey bi colour bezel.

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Compass bezel is really niche, and there's no heritage like the Alpinist has. Also, unlike say a 12-hour bezel which you can turn into a 60-minute timing bezel simply by multiplying whatever number X5, the compass bezel can't pull double duty for another use because the markers don't line up at any specific interval. You have to really want the compass bezel.
 

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Compass bezel is really niche, and there's no heritage like the Alpinist has. Also, unlike say a 12-hour bezel which you can turn into a 60-minute timing bezel simply by multiplying whatever number X5, the compass bezel can't pull double duty for another use because the markers don't line up at any specific interval. You have to really want the compass bezel.
And possibly more simply – divers are popular. You don't really see any of the Prospex Land or Sky models except for the Alpinist derivatives.

A timing bezel is definitely more useful than a slide rule, but a bit silly on a pilot's watch.
 

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Don't want to be pedantic, but no it doesn't say that.

It says:



It says the visibility and readability shall be checked. It does not say that there must be a lume marker every 5 min. This is not that clear cut, and the fact it's taken them 2 years to start putting an extra lume pip on when they pump out new watches all the time, is what makes me think it's not a hard requirement. To be honest this probably is the reason for the 3 o'clock lume, but I remain a bit sceptical.
So if you didn’t have a lumed indicator every 5 minutes you wouldn’t be compliant the way I read section 4.2.2. The test is exposing the watch to a calibrated light source for a minimum of 180 minutes, and then looking at it from a distance of 25cm “in the dark” to see markings indicating every five minutes. Not sure how you accomplish this without a luminous paint material or tritium tubes?

Whether it’s every 5 minutes or every hour, it’s 12 lumed markers either way you cut it.


15886437


I was also very confused about those new Certina 38mm DS Actions which don’t have a lumed hour marker at the 3 o’clock. Unfortunately I’m too cheap to pay for the full ISO6425 document to read the whole thing. :) Perhaps Seiko is preparing for some future date when you need lume at every 5 minute interval? Or maybe Certina got it wrong?
 
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