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Its too bad Mike is no longer around to put this to rest.
The ultimate solution would be to ask Damasko directly. However I am too shy to reach out.
 

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Yes it would. Frankly, I am a little surprised there are not more details about the new movement/watches available yet.
 
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Not sure if it was there before but I see there is a press release document on A26 on Damasko website.
If u haven't seen it, check it out.
It mentions that A26 has lots of interchangeable parts with 2824.
Also enhanced durability for hand winding ....
 

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The in-house movement is definitely superior to the ETA Elabore (they really should upgrade to TOP), but it doesn't justify a 40% price increase. The value for money just isn't there.

The main appeal of the DK30 is that there's a no-date option. I have a pathological hatred of 3 o'clock date windows.

My judgement is only based on the available pictures from Damasko.

The A26 seems to be just another clone of the ETA 2824 with a few changes not oriented to improve the performance. This are some observations:

  • A26 uses the seiko magic lever system.This is not an improvement over the double reverser from the 2824. In my opinion magic lever is superior based on the simplicity and lower manufacturing costs. Not an improvement in performance.
  • Balance bridge vs Balance cock. Irrelevant change, purely cosmetic.
  • Increased counterweight ball-bearing diameter. This is an improvement over something that didnt need to be improved, ETA 2824s dont fail there.
  • Balance assembly: A26x balance assembly appears to be the one from the ETA. I wonder whether they just copied the design or they purchased the entire assembly from any of the manufacturers producing clones of ETA 2824. There balance wheel is not made of Glucydur and I am wondering on what would be the materials on the other elements.


Paying more money for the in-house movement A-26 is completely absurd. Supporting their development by paying a premium: nonsense. This is just a commercial decission that Damasko has made in an attempt to diffetenciate themselves from other manufacturers without providing any additional substance to justify the extra cost.

Why this would need to be supported by the consumers? I fail to see it.
 

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My judgement is only based on the available pictures from Damasko.

The A26 seems to be just another clone of the ETA 2824 with a few changes not oriented to improve the performance. This are some observations:

  • A26 uses the seiko magic lever system.This is not an improvement over the double reverser from the 2824. In my opinion magic lever is superior based on the simplicity and lower manufacturing costs. Not an improvement in performance.
  • Balance bridge vs Balance cock. Irrelevant change, purely cosmetic.
  • Increased counterweight ball-bearing diameter. This is an improvement over something that didnt need to be improved, ETA 2824s dont fail there.
  • Balance assembly: A26x balance assembly appears to be the one from the ETA. I wonder whether they just copied the design or they purchased the entire assembly from any of the manufacturers producing clones of ETA 2824. There balance wheel is not made of Glucydur and I am wondering on what would be the materials on the other elements.


Paying more money for the in-house movement A-26 is completely absurd. Supporting their development by paying a premium: nonsense. This is just a commercial decission that Damasko has made in an attempt to diffetenciate themselves from other manufacturers without providing any additional substance to justify the extra cost.

Why this would need to be supported by the consumers? I fail to see it.
Hardened steel handwinding components instead of brass impresses me. Who else has done that?


Having a great time.
whineboy
 

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Hardened steel handwinding components instead of brass impresses me. Who else has done that?


Having a great time.
whineboy
It's an improvement for sure, but not $400 worth of an improvement.

Overall an ETA movement is more practical. If you need to get it serviced, anyone can do it. I doubt if there's going to be anyone besides Damasko that's going to be familiar with the A26, nor anyone that would have replacement parts.
 

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Hardened steel handwinding components instead of brass impresses me. Who else has done that?


Having a great time.
whineboy
Fully agree. We have narrowed the discussion into the single "improvement" worth to talk about it.

A great achievement both for Seiko and Damasko. Seiko delivers it for a grand total of 30usd (ref. NH36 cost per unit) and Damasko wants to overcharge hundreds of dollars for the "exclusivity".

In defense of the system used on the 2824: using brass in their ratchet wheel is the right choice. The aspects justifiyng this are:
  • The use of disimilar materials to minimize wear. The pinion from the automatic train is made of hardened steel, as the crown wheel also is. This selection of materials is pretty standard - ref. ETA 2892, miyota 9015, etc... all of them equipped with ratchet wheels made of brass.
  • The ratchet wheel is a weak link in the system to protect the rest of the gear train. The design of the ratchet wheel enables a very simple and cheap manufacturing ( a single one-step dye stamping over a sheet of brass, followed by thumbling in bulk to remove the burrs - That's all). It is so cheap to make... that this part can be precautinary replaced in every service with no significant added cost to the owner.
 

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Fully agree. We have narrowed the discussion into the single "improvement" worth to talk about it.

A great achievement both for Seiko and Damasko. Seiko delivers it for a grand total of 30usd (ref. NH36 cost per unit) and Damasko wants to overcharge hundreds of dollars for the "exclusivity".

In defense of the system used on the 2824: using brass in their ratchet wheel is the right choice. The aspects justifiyng this are:
  • The use of disimilar materials to minimize wear. The pinion from the automatic train is made of hardened steel, as the crown wheel also is. This selection of materials is pretty standard - ref. ETA 2892, miyota 9015, etc... all of them equipped with ratchet wheels made of brass.
  • The ratchet wheel is a weak link in the system to protect the rest of the gear train. The design of the ratchet wheel enables a very simple and cheap manufacturing ( a single one-step dye stamping over a sheet of brass, followed by thumbling in bulk to remove the burrs - That's all). It is so cheap to make... that this part can be precautinary replaced in every service with no significant added cost to the owner.

I have reviewed Mark's video and noticed that Damasko has kept the brass ratchet wheel and the crown wheel from the 2824 - no changes whatsoever.

Not even the idea of creating an hybrid movement is original to Damasko... Seagull ST16 is exactly the same: A clone from miyota 8215 with the Seiko's magic Lever included...

we all know the purchase price of an ST16 - where do I think Damasko should position their A26 movement price? at the same level of the rest of the ETA 2824 clones.... after all it is nothing more than that - the rest just marketing literature.
 

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Dear forum members


Thank you all for your feedback which is always very important for us.
Regarding Mike we are very sad that Mike is not active in the WUS Forum anymore, however, we wish him all the best for the future.
Maybe he comes back :-(

Besides we think that there are a few misunderstandings. The A26 family was developed to fit in every 2824-2 case. The customer can choose, if he wants ETA or in-house.
As everyone might know the purchase of ETA movements is very difficult and will get even more difficult. The quality of the other available movements don´t meet the quality standard of DAMASKO or would lead us to a totally different price range. The above mentioned movements included.

The ETA reverser gears are technical a very good option, if everybody would give his watch for service in a period of approximately 3-5 years (as a preventive measure). In reality the watches come back when the auto winder stops working. Very often the movements have to be serviced completely because of dirt and abrasion. After many years of servicing the ETA movements we have seen that there were always problems with the winding, this means we all love to wind up the watch manually which causes abrasion not in the gears but in the brass mounting on the plate . These problems were one of our main issues which we have successfully solved in the A26 family. The A26 family has a completely new development base of which several expansion levels will follow. The movement itself is not just an hybrid or a clone it is a combination of construction which we think are the best. Please take in mind the auto winding is also filed for patent by DAMASKO.

Regarding the price point the A26 is an in-house movement with technical refinements produced in low quantities here compared with mass standard movements. The surcharge was held as minor as possible, please compare to the surcharge of the in-house movements of other companies. But at least at DAMASKO you can choose between an ETA or an in-house.

for further questions and suggestions it will be a pleasure for me to answer.

Best regards and all the best for the new year. Most of all stay safe and healthy!

Konrad
 

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Dear forum members


Thank you all for your feedback which is always very important for us.
Regarding Mike we are very sad that Mike is not active in the WUS Forum anymore, however, we wish him all the best for the future.
Maybe he comes back :-(

Besides we think that there are a few misunderstandings. The A26 family was developed to fit in every 2824-2 case. The customer can choose, if he wants ETA or in-house.
As everyone might know the purchase of ETA movements is very difficult and will get even more difficult. The quality of the other available movements don´t meet the quality standard of DAMASKO or would lead us to a totally different price range. The above mentioned movements included.

The ETA reverser gears are technical a very good option, if everybody would give his watch for service in a period of approximately 3-5 years (as a preventive measure). In reality the watches come back when the auto winder stops working. Very often the movements have to be serviced completely because of dirt and abrasion. After many years of servicing the ETA movements we have seen that there were always problems with the winding, this means we all love to wind up the watch manually which causes abrasion not in the gears but in the brass mounting on the plate . These problems were one of our main issues which we have successfully solved in the A26 family. The A26 family has a completely new development base of which several expansion levels will follow. The movement itself is not just an hybrid or a clone it is a combination of construction which we think are the best. Please take in mind the auto winding is also filed for patent by DAMASKO.

Regarding the price point the A26 is an in-house movement with technical refinements produced in low quantities here compared with mass standard movements. The surcharge was held as minor as possible, please compare to the surcharge of the in-house movements of other companies. But at least at DAMASKO you can choose between an ETA or an in-house.

for further questions and suggestions it will be a pleasure for me to answer.

Best regards and all the best for the new year. Most of all stay safe and healthy!

Konrad
Thank you for the explanation, Herr Damasko.
It's always a pleasure to hear directly from our forum sponsor. As a patent lawyer, I am impressed by Damasko's protection of its inventive technology.
Best wishes and good health to all at Damasko in the new year.

15620792
 

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The general layout of the movement is pretty similar to a 2824 though not exactly the same.
True, but the full balance bridge is a nice improvement for shock resistance. Plus it remains easily serviceable by many watchmakers. A tougher 2824 alternative is a great option and the movement I'd choose if getting this Damasko.
 

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Dear forum members


Thank you all for your feedback which is always very important for us.
Regarding Mike we are very sad that Mike is not active in the WUS Forum anymore, however, we wish him all the best for the future.
Maybe he comes back :-(

Besides we think that there are a few misunderstandings. The A26 family was developed to fit in every 2824-2 case. The customer can choose, if he wants ETA or in-house.
As everyone might know the purchase of ETA movements is very difficult and will get even more difficult. The quality of the other available movements don´t meet the quality standard of DAMASKO or would lead us to a totally different price range. The above mentioned movements included.

The ETA reverser gears are technical a very good option, if everybody would give his watch for service in a period of approximately 3-5 years (as a preventive measure). In reality the watches come back when the auto winder stops working. Very often the movements have to be serviced completely because of dirt and abrasion. After many years of servicing the ETA movements we have seen that there were always problems with the winding, this means we all love to wind up the watch manually which causes abrasion not in the gears but in the brass mounting on the plate . These problems were one of our main issues which we have successfully solved in the A26 family. The A26 family has a completely new development base of which several expansion levels will follow. The movement itself is not just an hybrid or a clone it is a combination of construction which we think are the best. Please take in mind the auto winding is also filed for patent by DAMASKO.

Regarding the price point the A26 is an in-house movement with technical refinements produced in low quantities here compared with mass standard movements. The surcharge was held as minor as possible, please compare to the surcharge of the in-house movements of other companies. But at least at DAMASKO you can choose between an ETA or an in-house.

for further questions and suggestions it will be a pleasure for me to answer.

Best regards and all the best for the new year. Most of all stay safe and healthy!

Konrad
Thank you, Herr Damasko, for laying that out for us. It is particularly helpful in that a significantly improved hand-winding ability and longer time period until service in my opinion go a long way toward justifying the price increase. Happy holidays!
 

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If I am not mistaken, with in-house movements, cases, bracelets, and parts...Damasko is now just about fully in-house. For a smaller brand, at this price point, I feel that is quite the achievement. This is a brand I’d like to remain a customer of for many more years as they are truly achieving some special things all while their time pieces are being purposefully over- engineered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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For me the hand winding upgrade is a big deal. I prefer a hand winding watch (have a dk105), and have been holding off on a damasko chronograph, either a dc57 si or a dc80, as the watch will be hand wound often (pretty much every day) and the eta auto hand winding weaknesses are well know. If damasko rolls the winding upgrade into the chronos, the wallet will open :)

I wonder how many here who comment negatively on the price increase, especially compared to low wage asian produced "microbrands" and giant conglomerates (who also produce in low wage countries), have ever owned, or even worked for, a small, family business who is concerned about actually producing something THEMSELVES while paying adults a fair wage. I applaud damasko for the course they have chosen. It would certainly be easier to slash production costs of the actual product by outsourcing everything, pay hodinkee to review, spend a lot on marketing and ultimately charge more for less.
 

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For me the hand winding upgrade is a big deal. I prefer a hand winding watch (have a dk105), and have been holding off on a damasko chronograph, either a dc57 si or a dc80, as the watch will be hand wound often (pretty much every day) and the eta auto hand winding weaknesses are well know. If damasko rolls the winding upgrade into the chronos, the wallet will open :)

I wonder how many here who comment negatively on the price increase, especially compared to low wage asian produced "microbrands" and giant conglomerates (who also produce in low wage countries), have ever owned, or even worked for, a small, family business who is concerned about actually producing something THEMSELVES while paying adults a fair wage. I applaud damasko for the course they have chosen. It would certainly be easier to slash production costs of the actual product by outsourcing everything, pay hodinkee to review, spend a lot on marketing and ultimately charge more for less.
Not qualified to comment on the shortfalls of the ETA 2824's hand-winding implementation but thought some of you might be interested in seeing this copied explanation from the well-known watchsmith and forum contributor Archer on another forum:


ArcherOmega Qualified WatchmakerToday at 8:18am
Posts19,069Likes41,178
abrod520 said:
ETA 2824 / 2892 or respective Sellita clone (SW200 / SW300) movements that feature hand-winding ability but aren't properly designed; hand-winding watches with these movements often catches the rotor and can damage them. (Feel free to Google search "hand winding spins rotor) and learn more on your own)
There's no design issue here - if you are having the rotor spin while winding, it's a fault in the reversing wheels, and they should be changed. If they are worn, dirty, or improperly lubricated they won't function properly, but when properly taken care of they work just fine when hand winding.

This is not specific to these calibers either - any watch from any brand with reversing wheels can have this problem. For example here's a Tissot Navigator Chrono with a Lemania 1341 movement (same movement as an Omega 1040) - reversing wheels not functioning properly when it came in:



After service:



Once cleaned, they worked fine.
Link for full discussion is here: Watch winder? | Omega Forums
 

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I totally agree with you. I no longer own a Damasko and I miss my DA46 and its absolute overall quality, from the bezel action to the smoothness of the finish on such a "toolish" matte look. I only got rid of it due to siding with my Sinn 857 with the simple 3 hand + small date window. I am hoping Damasko comes out with something similar (no day of week) with the A26 movement. The DK30 is perfect except I would love for it to be in the 42mm size. I do not move enough to keep a full charge on autos and actually would love a watch that I felt confident hand winding. I hope 2021 reveals a new watch design. If not, I will keep my Sinn 857 until they do.
 

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Dear forum members


Thank you all for your feedback which is always very important for us.
Regarding Mike we are very sad that Mike is not active in the WUS Forum anymore, however, we wish him all the best for the future.
Maybe he comes back :-(

Besides we think that there are a few misunderstandings. The A26 family was developed to fit in every 2824-2 case. The customer can choose, if he wants ETA or in-house.
As everyone might know the purchase of ETA movements is very difficult and will get even more difficult. The quality of the other available movements don´t meet the quality standard of DAMASKO or would lead us to a totally different price range. The above mentioned movements included.

The ETA reverser gears are technical a very good option, if everybody would give his watch for service in a period of approximately 3-5 years (as a preventive measure). In reality the watches come back when the auto winder stops working. Very often the movements have to be serviced completely because of dirt and abrasion. After many years of servicing the ETA movements we have seen that there were always problems with the winding, this means we all love to wind up the watch manually which causes abrasion not in the gears but in the brass mounting on the plate . These problems were one of our main issues which we have successfully solved in the A26 family. The A26 family has a completely new development base of which several expansion levels will follow. The movement itself is not just an hybrid or a clone it is a combination of construction which we think are the best. Please take in mind the auto winding is also filed for patent by DAMASKO.

Regarding the price point the A26 is an in-house movement with technical refinements produced in low quantities here compared with mass standard movements. The surcharge was held as minor as possible, please compare to the surcharge of the in-house movements of other companies. But at least at DAMASKO you can choose between an ETA or an in-house.

for further questions and suggestions it will be a pleasure for me to answer.

Best regards and all the best for the new year. Most of all stay safe and healthy!

Konrad
Thanks for the update... look forward to other models with the A26
 
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