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Discussion Starter #1
Apologies that my first thread here is a problem question.

I recently bought (new) a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe Day Date 70s. Nice watch you might think and you'd be right. Trouble is, it keeps horrible time. It came back from being looked at this morning. I sync'ed it with UTC 12 hours ago and it is now 15 seconds fast. Tomorrow morning it will be 30 seconds fast. And it's the same very day.

It's been sent back to Blancpain who said “During 5 days on cyclomat the watch lost 5 seconds in total, so 1 seconds per day. Which is within the brand tolerances. The watch was then stationary until the PR ran out which then the watch regained 4 seconds.

We are unable to replicate the fault advised by the customer so will return this watch”

I don't doubt that they're telling the truth and I'd be very happy with -1 spd. However, I don't understand the discrepancy between what I'm seeing and what they saw. I'm even willing to accept that the problem lies with me because this is the second one I've had and the first one was 30 seconds fast every day too.

So the question is: what am I doing wrong? I wear it while I'm awake and it sits dial up in a watch box when I'm not. It's not magnetized (and the movement is amagnetic anyway).

Something that does occur to me is the unidirectional winding may need more energy than my (fairly sedate) lifestyle gives it. But I wound it fully this morning and I would have thought that a wound-down movement would run slow anyway

Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what the problem may be?
 

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Welcome to the forum, top-quark! (As a physicist I appreciate your username …)

My questions to you would be

1) What, exactly, do you do to check the watch's timing?
2) How do you know that the watch is not magnetized?

Wound-down movements generally run fast, not slow, so that could be the problem (though I doubt it) ...
 

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Do you know the delta (fastest position minus the slowest position)?

If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
 

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When you hand wind it during the day, is it nearly at full wind (once at full wind, you will sense tick noises)?

If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Welcome to the forum, top-quark! (As a physicist I appreciate your username …)

My questions to you would be

1) What, exactly, do you do to check the watch's timing?
2) How do you know that the watch is not magnetized?

Wound-down movements generally run fast, not slow, so that could be the problem (though I doubt it) ...
I set it using timeanddate dot com as a reference (can't post links, sorry).

Every twenty four hours or so, I note how the time has changed relative to the reference. It's not the most sophisticated method but you can see at a glance how far ahead or behind you are. Using the same crude method, my Omega Globemaster gains around two seconds a week.

As for being magnetized, it's been behaving the same since I bought it which is why I sent it in for regulation. Blancpain would have seen the same behaviour and fixed it. Besides which, the 1315, like a lot of Swatch Group movements these days, is pretty much amagnetic.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do you know the delta (fastest position minus the slowest position)?

If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
No idea. I don't have a Timegrapher. You're right that it could be +30 spd in all positions (i.e. not accurate but precise). Again, I would have expected Blancpain to observe the same behaviour.
 

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Contact Blancpain and ask if they saves the timing results. Also, make sure you're keeping it at a reasonably high state of wind.

If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
 

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The machine Blancpain mentioned is a randomiser in watch positioning, designed to mimic the wrist… within reason.
In theory it should average any positional errors, which their reported results suggest is the case.
What you need to do, is find out which positions overnight, whilst not worn, reduces the gain during the day.
The fact they reported the result from letting it wind down completely, shows it isn’t a case of poor isochronism (as mentioned above).

If you have an iPhone, then download the Lepsi app and see if it detects magnetism – you could be unaware of a magnetic field at work which is having an untoward effect.
As a matter of course, all service centres will demagnetise every watch before testing it to see if they can replicate the problem reported by the user.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The machine Blancpain mentioned is a randomiser in watch positioning, designed to mimic the wrist… within reason.
In theory it should average any positional errors, which their reported results suggest is the case.
What you need to do, is find out which positions overnight, whilst not worn, reduces the gain during the day.
The fact they reported the result from letting it wind down completely, shows it isn’t a case of poor isochronism (as mentioned above).

If you have an iPhone, then download the Lepsi app and see if it detects magnetism – you could be unaware of a magnetic field at work which is having an untoward effect.
As a matter of course, all service centres will demagnetise every watch before testing it to see if they can replicate the problem reported by the user.
I did wonder what a "cyclomat" was. Thank you for that.

I think you're right about testing it various positions to control the variables.
 

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Service should have put it on their automated timing machine and gotten the 6 positions rates. You should contact them to see if they still have these results and, if so, can they email them to you. When my Bathyscaphe chrono needed service, they provided this to me.
 

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I'm not a watchmaker but an enthusiast and I spent 140.00 on a timegrapher. I put all my watches on it from time to time. It at least gives me a reference of what a watch is doing. If you have multiple watches might be worth the investment or if you frequently buy/sell/trade watches.

Best,

David
 

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No idea. I don't have a Timegrapher. You're right that it could be +30 spd in all positions (i.e. not accurate but precise). Again, I would have expected Blancpain to observe the same behaviour.
The Watch Tuner Timegrapher app for ios might do the trick. Crude, compared to a real Timegrapher, but it’d give you an idea of the movement’s positional variation. I use it.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/watch-tuner-timegrapher/id991367080


whineboy

All mechanical, all the time
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Things are definitely strange here. I've spent the last few days making (fairly crude) measurements of positional variation - I don't much care about fractional seconds so times to the nearest second are good enough. Results are:
  • Face up: +6 spd
  • Face down: -1 spd
  • Crown up: +2 spd
  • Crown right: -1 spd
  • Crown down: 0
  • Crown left: 0
Apart from the slightly anomalous face up reading, this is pretty much flawless. So given that no position has a deviation >+6 spd, how does my watch manage to do this.

This morning (sync'ed with UTC):
IMG_9867.jpg

This evening:
IMG_9869.jpg

That's a gain of 14 seconds in slightly less than 12 hours. I'm not imagining this - the only difference is me wearing the damned thing. I have no more than an averagely magnetic personality and neither live nor work in a gravitational anomaly so I'm stumped. Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
 

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I can only presume the difference is temperature related, something I’d have thought the cyclomat included.
Now that you have a certain amount of evidence, go back to BP directly and see what they have to say.
A good watch repairer will regulate a movement based on a customer’s usage and typical positioning – someone sat at a desk all day long will have the watch resting mostly between dial up and 6 high.
I don’t think you’ve any issue that BP are trying to ignore to save them having to resolve under warranty (I presume it’s within warranty) as they would’ve seen the amplitude during checks, which is a greater indication of a watch’s state of health than accuracy deviation alone.
 

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How active is your wrist? I once had an issue (with my BP) that the amplitude was too high. Due to this, aggressive arm action like a cross-country ski simulator (Nordic Track) caused banking. It was an easy fix for them.
 
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