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Ah, okay thanks for clarifying. I assume then that someone told you that this was acceptable amplitude? A watchmaker who left Rolex due to the hours they were asking him to work had talked about them lowering the minimum amplitude specs in order to allow more repaired watches out the door, provided that the accuracy was still there, so I guess I'm not surprised to hear this in a way.

Amplitude is a funny thing when related to accuracy, and the level of isochronism obviously comes into play. If you have positional variation in the vertical positions, there's an amplitude where they will flip - the fast become slow and the slow become fast. There's actually a sort of sweet spot for amplitude, which for most movements is around 220 degrees, where poise errors basically disappear.

In any case, at some point you realize as a new watch buyer, you are a beta tester. This is no different...and my contacts have said that right now there isn't a handy solution that they can just implement, so they are essentially limping along while they try to figure something out. The fact that they are now using this movement more widely has exposed issues that were not apparent when it was in more limited use. It's ugly...

Cheers, Al
Yikes, sounds like you have deep contacts on this... That's really not ideal if they're still not sure why the issue is there... I'm sitting on the side of the fence that Rolex will do the right thing for the owners at the point they do find a solution... This as the makings of a disaster for them..
 

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If they don’t have any alternative calibres to hand they only have two options:
1. Cease production until a revised calibre is available that solves the problem.
2. Push on and hope to manage through the problem with service fixes until a revised calibre is available that solves the problem.
The major risk to their brand reputation comes if people start to put the issue of the Tudor GMT calibre and the 3235 together and question what is happening.
The power of social media means that in marketing terms problems can escalate very quickly if brand ambassadors & influencers start to talk about product breakdowns - and then move on to another brand that quickly becomes the next big thing.


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That's the thing one, literally no one on social media are talking about this... like we're 7 years in to these movements and the issues... I do get this could be a ticking timebomb... maybe it's a sign of the times that most Rolex buyers don't actually care about the timekeeping aspect... =(
 

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That's the thing one, literally no one on social media are talking about this... like we're 7 years in to these movements and the issues... I do get this could be a ticking timebomb... maybe it's a sign of the times that most Rolex buyers don't actually care about the timekeeping aspect... =(
That's not it, it's just that only people who frequent the forums are anal enough to care about a couple of seconds and amplitude.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
 

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That's not it, it's just that only people who frequent the forums are anal enough to care about a couple of seconds and amplitude.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
when the issue hits though, it's not just a couple of seconds, it's minutes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
@Archer @gumpy-au @Kjo43

As promised, a more detailed study of my new SubC (124060) on the timegrapher. I picked up the watch 1/3/2022; I don't know how long the AD had it before they delivered it to me (at least one week), so I don't know how old it actually is. But I presume given the demand they had only recently received it.

This is on a Weishi 1900. Lift angle 53 degrees. Measurements began 30 minutes after full winding (70 cranks). After changing to each position, I let the measurements settle for a couple of minutes. The rate (and Stdev) are based on 14 measurements (two minutes of data). Amplitude is lowest observed during those two minutes, but it varied by only 2-3 degrees in each position. Beat error was constant for each position.


PositionAmplitude (deg)Beat error (ms)Rate (spd)Std. Dev. (spd)
DU2740.01.90.4
DD2700.01.10.4
CD2340.2-4.10.8
CU2270.1-0.20.4
6U2350.1-4.70.5
12U2300.1-0.70.7

I will let it sit for 24 hours and repeat the measurements again same time tomorrow and post again.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Oh, and as intimated by my recent posts, it's slower now that it was when I picked it up, by about -1.5 spd.
 

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@Archer @gumpy-au @Kjo43

As promised, a more detailed study of my new SubC (124060) on the timegrapher. I picked up the watch 1/3/2022; I don't know how long the AD had it before they delivered it to me (at least one week), so I don't know how old it actually is. But I presume given the demand they had only recently received it.

This is on a Weishi 1900. Lift angle 53 degrees. Measurements began 30 minutes after full winding (70 cranks). After changing to each position, I let the measurements settle for a couple of minutes. The rate (and Stdev) are based on 14 measurements (two minutes of data). Amplitude is lowest observed during those two minutes, but it varied by only 2-3 degrees in each position. Beat error was constant for each position.


PositionAmplitude (deg)Beat error (ms)Rate (spd)Std. Dev. (spd)
DU2740.01.90.4
DD2700.01.10.4
CD2340.2-4.10.8
CU2270.1-0.20.4
6U2350.1-4.70.5
12U2300.1-0.70.7

I will let it sit for 24 hours and repeat the measurements again same time tomorrow and post again.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
Based on the data seen in other forums there's absolutely nothing wrong with your watch at the moment. After your 24h test (to which i'm sure you'll show 200+ amp on all positions) I'd forget about all this an enjoy the watch.

Fingers crossed it says that way.
 

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Minutes? Over what period of time? A month? Two months? Three months?

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when you're hit with the 32xx amp issue the watch can lose minutes over a week, mine was 2 mins a week when i sent it in for warranty? what is your issue with all this?
 

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You should stick to your iPhone.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
no i'd prefer my wrist watch to operate in spec... to much to ask? You a Rolex Fan Boy or simply don't believe watches should be accurate? You ignorant to a well documented issue?
 

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no i'd prefer my wrist watch to operate in spec... to much to ask?
I think your expectations are too much is all. I used to think like you... If my watch fell out of +-2 seconds per day, heaven for bid! I paid 7k for my Explorer. I demand more precise time keeping. Then I realized, what am I talking about... I'm not using my watch to rely upon anything truly important. If I need true accuracy, I'll take a glance at my phone.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
 

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I think your expectations are too much is all. I used to think like you... If my watch fell out of +-2 seconds per day, heaven for bid! I paid 7k for my Explorer. I demand more precise time keeping. Then I realized, what am I talking about... I'm not using my watch to rely upon anything truly important. If I need true accuracy, I'll take a glance at my phone.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
2 mins slow per week with full wind amplitudes at 230 dial up is an issue with the moment. If you think that’s fine good for you. I don’t really accept mediocrity.
Where in my postings does it show I’m sensitive to small deviations? I’m talking -17s per day and a movement clearly showing issues.
Good on you for using your phone for things truely important. I use my watch
 

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There you go again... Bringing up full winds, amplitudes. How about you just wear and enjoy your watch... In good health.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
 

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If you can repeat the test 24 hours after fully winding it, that will give us an answer certainly.
Cheers, Al
@drmdwebb - thanks for allowing my data join your thread

@Archer
New data set below:

3230, ~7weeks of wearing, -7/day on wrist
Weshi 1000 cheap-o, set at 53.0 lift angle this time
two measurements taken:
1.full wind + 30 mins
2. 24 hours later (left in DU position)

PositionFW+30 Rate FW+30 Amplitude+24hrs Rate+24hrs Amplitude
Dial up (FH)-4282-4261
Dial down (CH)-3277-2254
Crown down (9H)-4246-8218
Crown left (6H)-3238-5219
Crown up (3H)-6247-5220
Crown right (12H)-6246-7215
 

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@drmdwebb - thanks for allowing my data join your thread

@Archer
New data set below:

3230, ~7weeks of wearing, -7/day on wrist
Weshi 1000 cheap-o, set at 53.0 lift angle this time
two measurements taken:
1.full wind + 30 mins
2. 24 hours later (left in DU position)

PositionFW+30 Rate FW+30 Amplitude+24hrs Rate+24hrs Amplitude
Dial up (FH)-4282-4261
Dial down (CH)-3277-2254
Crown down (9H)-4246-8218
Crown left (6H)-3238-5219
Crown up (3H)-6247-5220
Crown right (12H)-6246-7215
Okay, Delta goes from 3 seconds to 6 seconds - not unexpected. Amplitudes drop, but still above 200 in all positions after 24 hours, so aside from the timekeeping it's in spec.
 

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There you go again... Bringing up full winds, amplitudes. How about you just wear and enjoy your watch... In good health.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
Yes let’s ignore the fact that it’s not running properly. You in the if we test less you have fewer cases boat?
 

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@drmdwebb - thanks for allowing my data join your thread

@Archer
New data set below:

3230, ~7weeks of wearing, -7/day on wrist
Weshi 1000 cheap-o, set at 53.0 lift angle this time
two measurements taken:
1.full wind + 30 mins
2. 24 hours later (left in DU position)

PositionFW+30 Rate FW+30 Amplitude+24hrs Rate+24hrs Amplitude
Dial up (FH)-4282-4261
Dial down (CH)-3277-2254
Crown down (9H)-4246-8218
Crown left (6H)-3238-5219
Crown up (3H)-6247-5220
Crown right (12H)-6246-7215
Your movement is fine, if anything has a higher amp than the average. I bet straight after full wind you’d be showing 300+. If that regulation bothers you get it tweaked. I’d get a bit annoyed with -7 per day as that would mean almost a minute slow after a week. At the same time every time rsc touch my watches they leave a new mark so yeah line ball call.
 
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