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Discussion Starter #1
There are a number of unknown vintage watch brands at least to me.
I saw this brand Benton and NIDOR.

are they real swiss vintage pieces? Can someone provide some info?

I did google on Benton and did not find any info on this brand.
here are the pics.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/nothinbuttime/dec0307146.jpg?vvid=61534943&allow_mailing_list=1&allow_track_link=1&track=0239479467-d44f5&sp=1&vsid=1&vgp=0&vimgs=dec0307146.jpg,dec0307147.jpg,dec0307148.jpg,dec0307149.jpg,dec0307150.jpg,dec0307151.jpg

I find almost no info on NIDOR, except below, which claims it belong to BUSER FRERES & CIE. S.A.
http://www.altivotimepieces.com/vintage/id90.html
I am planning to buy the item number 190173627139 on ebay.
 
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No knowledge on the Benton but Buser Frères are well known in the world of watches.

BUSER FRERES & Cie, a movement manufacturer established in 1893. The family-owned firm started producing complete watches in 1916. The main markets for its pocket and wristwatches included Germany, Britain and North America. So NIDOR was just a brand name belonging to Buser Frères.

Together with PHENIX, VULCAIN and the THOMMEN SA this company later belonged to the "Manufactures d’Horlogerie Suisses Réunies SA" (better known as M.S.R).
The Phenix Watch Co. was founded by three watchmakers in 1873. The THOMMEN SA watch factory opened in 1869 by Gédéon Thommen in Waldenburg near Basel .
Vulcain dates back to 1858.

Here´s a NIDOR with the RevueThommen trade mark on its dial.



Rumour says that NIDOR stand for Niederdorf, where Buser Freres was located in 1916.
 

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First of all, welcome to the forum. Hope you stay for a long time to come and find us informative - and maybe inform us whenever you can!

Benton will be a little known, standard brand using generic movements. The one in your link has an Adolf Schild AS 1686 movement (compare http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&0&2uswk&AS_1686). The mark under the balance will be "AS" or "AS ST" (ST for Standard). There were many such makers in the fifties right up to the seventies when the quartz crisis wiped most of them out.

Never heard of Nidor, but I have heard of Buser. They were in with Vulcain, Phenix and Revue Thommen in the M.S.R. group (Manufactures Suisses Reunies). Eventually, Revue swallowed the lot of them and marketed watches only under its own name. Recently, the rights to Vulcain were extracted and the company is independent again, manufacturing the famous "Cricket" in all its (new) versions. But I digress.....

As for the watch in the picture, I would guess seventies or, if the seller is right, late sixties at the earliest. It will probably also have a generic movement. Normally, I would advise caution since there is no jewel count on the dial (might end up with a cheapo 1-jewel pin lever movement) but if Nidor was linked to Buser, I would relax that a little (though not suspend it altogether). Nevertheless, 120-odd Euros is the limit I would want to spend for an NOS no-name watch of that type. Still, if you really like it, don't let me stand in your way. My main advice would be to look around a little more before making a final decision. And ask the seller what's inside!

Hartmut Richter
 

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Hell's teeth - that's the second time this fortnight that I reply to a post and, upon submission, find someone else has written almost the same as me at the same time!! We have to synchronize better to raise efficiency here..... (you go for that one and I'll take this one here...)!

Hartmut Richter
 
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Hell's teeth - that's the second time this fortnight that I reply to a post and, upon submission, find someone else has written almost the same as me at the same time!! We have to synchronize better to raise efficiency here..... (you go for that one and I'll take this one here...)!

Hartmut Richter
:-d:-d
 

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Discussion Starter #6
the other ebay item (190173627091). similar design but day is in English instead of French states 21 jewels. cost alot more also.
Thanx for the advice, will ask seller whats inside.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
An update, NIDOR seller willing to sell English version even if U won the French item.
Seller did not open the case, but claimed it is 21 jewels.
Had check with a few buyers that had bought the same item. So far only 1 responded, He claimed that it is 21 Jewels and it run +10sec/24hr.
 
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An update, NIDOR seller willing to sell English version even if U won the French item.
Seller did not open the case, but claimed it is 21 jewels.
Had check with a few buyers that had bought the same item. So far only 1 responded, He claimed that it is 21 Jewels and it run +10sec/24hr.
21 jewels doesn´t mean that much, there have been a couple of these around those times. If it is a MSR movement I´d say: interesting !:-!
 

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10 seconds per 24 hours is neither here nor there - what matters is the deviation around mean daily rate! If the watch gains ten seconds every day, period, it is a brilliant watch (or quartz or similar!). If it gains 30 the first and loses 10 the next, that's an average of plus 10 but the watch is either no good or in serious need of a service.

As for the second eBay item, what I would wonder is why the date is halfway between numbers when the watch is set to twenty to four!! Is the date functioning properly?!

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Experts, Is there any sites that talk about MSR movements?

I must say, +10sec/24hr is very general.
speculation here, would most layman see approx +10sec every day?

regarding the Benton watch. SA 1686 don't seem to cost much. any estimate how much such watch may worth? I am also unable to find info/review on SA 1686.
 

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MSR movements?! Probably not - too specific. Try Ranfft's database which has a wide range of different movement types (http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&0&2uswk), including MSR and its subbrands (Revue Thommen, Vulcain, Phenix - don't think Buser made their own movements but might be wrong there). As for 10 seconds a day deviation, even a Rolex will achieve that if regulated badly enough!! As I stated earlier, don't look at the value but look at the change from day to day!

Hartmut Richter
 

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regarding the Benton watch. SA 1686 don't seem to cost much. any estimate how much such watch may worth? I am also unable to find info/review on SA 1686.
We don't give valuations here. Read our sticky notes for reasons why. AS 1686 is a fairly nice standard movement which was used in many brands of Swiss watches.
 

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A couple of points:

1. AS 1686 was also used by Waltham in the 70s. It is a decent mid-level movement even if it isn't a pretty as some.

2. I have a Benton in a stainless steel case with an AS 1700 and IMO is a quite nice watch
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanx for the advice.
However i am a little confuse here.
Dev => isn't the difference of the change from day to day?
and not change from day to day? I am wrong ^^;
if day 1: +10sec day 2: +12sec day 3: +9sec. Is the Dev small or big here?
at times old watch how to measure the daily change effectively? can recommend a good method?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you Mod, for highlighting the regulations here.
I will pay attention to the sticky.
Pardon me for not knowing the rules.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Can show a pic of the benton watch?
how is it running for you?

I recently come across Roamer, that is running on MST movements like 414 and 371. Anyone know about Roamer?
 

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Roamer used to be the watch (sub-)brand of the ebaucherie (=movement maker) Meyer & Stüdeli (=MST), founded in 1888. The brand became so successful that in the fifties (1952 to be precise), the whole company was named that. MST also sold movements to other makers so that Roamer watches have "manufacture" (i.e. in-house) movements but these are not as exclusive as other such movements. The most distinguished was the Cal. 417/427 wrist alarm. Like others, Roamer suffered heavily in the quartz crisis and is nowadays owned (at least in part) and led by the Cung Nam Watch Group, Hong Kong.

Hartmut Richter
 

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Here's my Benton:
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Got the watch, have a watchmaker checked out whats inside.
Its a MSR P27 movement and seem good, need oiling.
I can't seem to find any info on it.

BTW, Hartmut Richter thanx for the tip. I just spend like EUR$60 on it. you limit is a good guide.
 
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