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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As you are aware Brian and I have been testing our Ocean Diver prototypes. Design wise watch looks already quite ok though there are things to improve such as better polishing, missing lume at bezel triangle. However there was a major flaw with prototype - the watch movement. We had decided to use Seagull ST16 with day/date indicator for our watch as we thought it would be good enough. However when we received prototypes we noticed things didn't look good at all. Movement was quite irregular and seconds hand didn't move smoothly enough so we had to take a decision.
We had the following options in table :

  • stick to ST16 and check if issues we faced happened in many other movements. This would imply a great waste of movements used as from our experience many ST16s were flawed
  • use a different movement than ST16. This was option we took and in my opinion it was the wisest of all. We looked in market for other day/date movements. We wanted it to be reliable as much as possible without any compromise. We finally found it. It is also an Asian movement though it is Japanese. It is the highly praised Miyota 8205. Though this means costs have increased as Miyota movement is about 3 times more expensive than ST16 we will not change sales price for launch phase as I want to provide you a quality time piece. With this changes we may assist a slight delay as in January we will have the Chinese New Year and factories stop for 2 weeks time but I believe Quality is our ultimate goal.
 

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Keep on focusing on Quality (and clarity of communication, among other concerns) as the ultimate goal and the customers will respond. Good decision!
 

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I think it is a very good decision from your side to anticipate issues and problems with the ST16 in the Ocean Diver and to change for a "better one"...

Cheers
Jerome
 

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Just got the email update, and wanted to comment about this.

I think it's a great decision to move to a known reliable movement after your experience. Though it will ultimately result in a higher priced watch, the reason is easily understood. Heck, doing so may net you more sales from those that were skeptical of the use of the ST movement.


Just a couple of questions:

Will the font of the day/date be very different from the prototype shown already?

And what are your plans for "dressing up" the Miyota 8205? I've had an Invicta with a Miyota and a display back...they are rather "plain" to my eyes with the seemingly bead-blasted finish of many parts.
 

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Most excellant decision it says alot about the commitmant from Promotheus. I had read some very bad articles on the ST16 and had today planned to cancel my reserve, I will now forgo my decision until I have done my due dilligence on this new movement and I hope any other areas of concern besides the other ones spoken of are addressed and I am hopefull that first time out of the box is a homerun.

Good Work,
Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As I said before we will strive for quality above anything else. Though changing movement increased costs I will honour mentioned sales price of 200 EUR + VAT taxes where applicable + shipping. The 20% discount also remains in place. Nothing changed in terms of sales price, you just get a better watch which I think for everyone buying it is a terrific deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We will try to make fonts as close as possible to what was in Brian's original design, though some compromises may have to be made.
 

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Will the font of the day/date be very different from the prototype shown already?
As Carlos said we will try to keep the style of the day date wheel as close to possible as the prototype you have seen. What I can say is that we are going to have a much better quality of movement and greater attention to detail than we experienced in the prototypes. I'm still wearing mine now and it's running good, but we each have very high expectations and wanted better.

The ST16 while good just didn't cut it for either of us in the end and we knew that we could do much better. It was a tough decision for Carlos as it incurs additional cost at his end, but it's the right thing to do and it will make for a much better watch overall.

The day/date wheels will remain with a black background with white lettering. It will be very nice I promise
 

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Going with this new mov, will you be able to ungrave the rotor with the Prometheus Logo as on the Chrono ?...

Thanks
Jerome
 

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Quality is king, particularly when you are trying to establish a new brand in a fiercely competitive market. Your "no compromise" attitude will undoubtedly pay dividends in the future and I congratulate you on a decision well made.
 

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As I said before we will strive for quality above anything else. Though changing movement increased costs I will honour mentioned sales price of 200 EUR + VAT taxes where applicable + shipping. The 20% discount also remains in place. Nothing changed in terms of sales price, you just get a better watch which I think for everyone buying it is a terrific deal.
Was one of the issues with the ST16 a 'stuttering' seconds hand? If so be forewarned that this is also an occasional feature of the Miyota. It's because both use an indirectly driven seconds hand.

Also, you need to point out to folks that the Miyota is not a hacking movement.

Apart from that, I think you've made a wise decision that should stand your new watch in good stead :-!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think almost everyone is aware that Miyota 8205 has no hacking feature but that is fine. It is more robust than the ST16 which is something appreciated as I want to provide an excellent watch.
Nothing against Chinese movements in general only for the ST16 in particular that wasn't up to expectations.
 

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Even though I didn't have much trouble with my Zodiac Oceanaire (which had a "Claro-Semag CL888" movement - rumored to be a reworked ST-16), it did have a few foibles, like the second hand jumping after pushing the crown back in.
I have quite a few watches with Miyota 82xx movements in them, Citizen, Invicta, Zeno and never had a problem or even the characteristic Miyota "stutter". I understand that the stutter is common to any indirect drive seconds hand movement and have seen it in Vostok automatics which use the same type of spring against the seconds pinion to prevent stutter.

I applaud your decision to change to the Miyota after spotting trouble with the ST-16, not all manufacturers would do that. It also makes me look forward to the Ocean Diver even more, as I have had such good performance with my Miyota based automatics. :-!

Best regards,
Griff
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Even though I didn't have much trouble with my Zodiac Oceanaire (which had a "Claro-Semag CL888" movement - rumored to be a reworked ST-16), it did have a few foibles, like the second hand jumping after pushing the crown back in.
Yes, that was one of the issues to be found as in the end hacking feature wasn't that much different of the workaround of moving hands slowly anti-clockwise on a Vostock when setting time. Seconds hand jumps a couple of seconds after pushing crown back in, something not acceptable for my standards of a hacking movement. This doesn't mean ST16 is not a reliable movement, just that it wasn't up to what we would like it to be.
 

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We will try to make fonts as close as possible to what was in Brian's original design, though some compromises may have to be made.
Kudos to both you and Brian for making a hard decision in light of current economic conditions and market timing as well. FWIW, I think it totally was the right call to make because you've now set the standard for your brand in terms of integrity and confirms your commitment to quality as well.

On a different note - now that you've decided to abandon the ST16 - will we see an improved (bigger?) day / date wheel with the Miyota as a result also?
 
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