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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi

I have been offered this GP Gyromatic with gold filled 10k case and original crown. I do not have photo of the movement, but must get it opened before making a buying decision. On the back there is an engraving "Sterling Drug Inc. and initials". So probably a commemorative watch. What I notice is that the date window may be missing the frame. Anything that should put me off? Opinions?
Gyromatic2.jpg
Gyromatic1.jpg
 

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Hi finflyer,

I'm a little suspect about this one. I cant find another with those dial colours. All the others seem to have the Swiss or Swiss made displayed discreetly under the minute track or at any rate much lower on the dial than the one you show. The pics aren't great but I would treat with caution.

Regards,
 

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Almost certainly a redial, and the crown is neither correct, nor original.

There are a huge number of vintage GP on the market at any given time, so why would you choose this one?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks for comments. I have found one similar item:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/204641557/pristine-girard-perregaux-mens-vintage

Which seems to locate in MO, US. The price of this watch is ridiculous though. The watch I have been offered is far away from Missouri, but may been bought from US (probably from Watchcat, Missouri, that seems to be defunct now) so probably not the same watch? Sterling Drug Inc. seems to have been present in Missouri in the 60's (according to the Supreme Court of Missouri decision archives), explaining the commemorative status of the watch. So maybe these two watches are from same original source (both redials/frankes, or not). This is getting interesting...
I like the looks of the watch, but if it's a redial/franken, then not going to buy.
 

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Interesting (second) find. While I remain skeptical, it is true that GP made a dazzling variety of models and styles during the '60s and '70s, and so I have to leave open the possibility that I am wrong. The dial issue that I find suspicious is the size of the "SWISS MADE". It is proportionally imbalanced, and I cannot imagine which any company would want that notation to grab as much, if not more attention than the brand and model names.

The crown also appears outsized, and especially for an automatic watch that, by definition, requires little winding. Having said that, the late '60s and '70s did feature many outlandish designs, so again, perhaps it is original after all.

Cheers,

Tony C.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
In addition, I found for example this Vintage 1977 Girard-Perregaux Gyromatic Date Self-Winding Automatic Presentation Watch (Stainless Steel) | watchsteez.com
In which the "swiss made" is written in same style. Perhaps for better visibility in a commemorative watch. This seems to accommodate same movement also, Gyromatic 152 17j.
Also, a bit similar watches from the era:
Item 499856 - Kaplans Auktioner
B?n tin: 830371 | Ph? Mua Bán | PHOMUABAN

What I also find interesting that most of the watches that has resemblance are with company name engravings.

About redial, in my opinion this https://img0.etsystatic.com/036/0/9901921/il_fullxfull.657732382_fkxb.jpg looks too precise and well made, but I might be wrong.

Still, I would love to hear what do you think of these examples, and what conclusion to draw from them. Still very interesting...

Regards,
Vesa
 

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Hi Vesa,

the last two to which you linked have more normal proportions with the SWISS MADE, so I don't find them to be closely comparable. The fonts and lettering on the subject watch look acceptable. Do you have any photos of the case back and movement? I am wondering about condition.

Tony C.
 

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I understand the concern about the size of the "SWISS MADE" text. However, I find it a little speculative to conclude that the watch has been redialed. The font seems very good and the markers are precise. Moreover, the lume dots seem to be aged in a very realistic way (e.g. not all exactly the same shade). If this is a re-dial, it is a very old and very good one.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thank you all for expert comments. The one issue still is the movement. If it is the same (need to get the case opened) found in the similar https://www.etsy.com/listing/204641557/pristine-girard-perregaux-mens-vintage and some other watches mentioned here, the GP 152-301, then what is that? There are not too many mentions about a movement GP 152-301 in the web, and in Ranfft I found nothing (maybe don't know how to search). In julesborel I found it might based on AS 2162 (at least GP 152-309 is). Any thoughts on that?

Cheers,
Vesa
 

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Hi finflyer,

Interesting you found another example, and a very clean version at that. We cant preclude that they aren't from the same hand but I have to except that it is possible they are original. However I'm not totally convinced and for my part I have to say "undecided". Not sure that helps you much. I'd like to see more examples or an ad or a catalogue to confirm without doubt.

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Whatever the end result, I'd like to commend finflyer for his efforts. Too often newcomers to these type of forums request help, but make little effort to research on their own. This, in contrast, is an example of how it should (ideally) be done, as the OP has added value to the thread.

Regards,

Tony C.
 

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Yes, it does surprise me how many visitors don't appear to have search engines on their computers. This growing frustration with this laziness means that I've become reluctant to offer offer help as easily and freely as I once might have. A shame. As Tony says, he's added value to the thread by doing some mouse work first.

We toast you, finflyer, and wish you well with your watch.

Whatever the end result, I'd like to commend finflyer for his efforts. Too often newcomers to these type of forums request help, but make little effort to research on their own. This, in contrast, is an example of how it should (ideally) be done, as the OP has added value to the thread.

Regards,

Tony C.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thank you all for opinions and compliments. Searching for info of this and other more or less related watches and other clues has taken quite many hours of googling with different approaches, and going through hundreds of links and images. Sometimes it's been quite frustrating, as this seems not to be a too common watch. And all the time there has been a question of the authenticity of the item. As I understand that none of you might have the exact information nor the time to search it, it was my duty to dig as much relevant information and present it for educated opinions.

My conclusion: probably the watch is authentic as there are two of them, timely and spacely separated. The movement (still has to see it's the same) is based on fairly common calibre with spare parts available. So, mostly the condition of the movement will define if it's a watch worth buying.

Big thanks,
Vesa
 

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Which, as you rightly point out, is what most of us here have done, too, hours and hours and hours, and so you'll understand that people can get a bit snarky when some people don't even bother to try. Anyway, I agree, it's likely to be as it seems to be, authentic. Good luck.

>SNIP… and other clues has taken quite many hours of googling with different approaches, and going through hundreds of links and images. Sometimes it's been quite frustrating, as this seems not to be a too common watch. And all the time there has been a question of the authenticity of the item. As I understand that none of you might have the exact information nor the time to search it, it was my duty to dig as much relevant information and present it for educated opinions. >SNIP
 
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