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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
i like the old look at this Ancre watch and i want to have him reconditioned. Do you know something about it? year, history... i know it's old and ugly, but i like it :d



 

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I do not thin 'ANCRE' is the name of manufacturer but the type of escapement, that is a lever (detached). 'ancre' means 'anchor' and to some a lever escapement pallet looks like an anchor
swiss made watch 1920s
Adam
 
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It actually is a trademark, on Mikrolisk. Picard freres, registered in 1898.
I would put this great little watch in the mid to late thirties, maybe a little later.
Regards, Bob.
 

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Thank you. So you're saying that this Watch is not Ancre and it's from the
Well I think we do not know
I am suggesting that it is like the jewel count and the type of escapement.
While member Bobbee, thinks its a trademark of Picard Freres.

I checked the 'bible' of Swiss Watchmakers by Kathleen Pritchard and could find no evidence to that (Ancre)

So in 'my' opinion the jury is still out.
I still think watch is from the 20s, possible early 30s.

Adam
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Well I think we do not know
I am suggesting that it is like the jewel count and the type of escapement.
While member Bobbee, thinks its a trademark of Picard Freres.

I checked the 'bible' of Swiss Watchmakers by Kathleen Pritchard and could find no evidence to that (Ancre)

So in 'my' opinion the jury is still out.
I still think watch is from the 20s, possible early 30s.

Adam
thank you for your time and efort :) i'm glad i have something to start with.i'll keep searching.
 

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thank you for your time and efort :) i'm glad i have something to start with.i'll keep searching.
Pleasure
You have two ideas to start with.
Narrowing down, if either is correct becomes more difficult.
Just enjoy your watch
adam
 
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This "shape" of watch case does look younger then the 20's; the fixed lugs look like they were soldered onto a more standard 30's or 40's watch case after the fact; this wasn't uncommon for people who went off to WWII with their own watches and wanted the lugs to be a bit more sturdy. The case is a three-piece design where the movement is inserted from the frount and securied with case screws; that design was used less and less as time went on, so that suggests older. The number style on the dial is kinda 20's-ish, but I'm not a font expert.

The movement is devoid of markings and the dial has (to my eye) no country of origin, which means that it wasn't (for example) imported into England or the U.S. Suggests strongly that it was made (or finished at least) in France or Germany and sold domestically. Could even be domestic swiss, although by the 30's I think even the domestic watches had "swiss" on the dial. The term "rubies" also tends to suggest european sale. "Ancre", as Adam noted, was often used as a description of the type of escapement on pocket watches at the turn of the century, but that wouldn't have been much of a differentiator by the 30's; there were still a few cylinders kicking around, but most watches would have been at least pin-levers (and pin-levers often shared the "anchor" look, depending on the maker). The use of knife-edge screws to secure the dial feet and the single-point click are "older" design characteristic not found as frequently as the industry advanced into the 30's and 40's. The most interesting feature (from an identification perspective) is the location of the hairspring terminal on the actual body of the balance cock; that's an unusual design that makes me think this is the output of a small watch company. That can skew identification via design, as a small company would be more likely to retain older design elements.

All in all, I think Adam's guess on age is a bit more likely for this watch, but Ancre probably was a tradename.
 

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Cylinders lasted much longer in Germany than the rest of Europe and M&ST didn't switch over production from them to pin lever until the latter half of the thirties. They too continued that style of dial foot retention. We should bear in mind that calibres could remain in production fur long periods of time so older designs were found much later than we might expect.

Overall style for me is thirties rather than twenties.
 

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For a number of reasons, I am still believing this watch is 1920s or early 30s and not 40s.

Take a look here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/wire-lug-find-1065602.html

and here:
bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Felsa 107 old

Remarks
option: bimetallic screw balance
different bridge shapes (cf. Felsa 107)

Example, year: signature; shock device
ca. 1925: -
(the hole for the latch pin in the setting lever indicates the transition to the successor with setting-lever spring)
Circa 1925

Of course these are different watches and movements, but outside style is similar, round, fixed lugs, similar dial fonts, similar seconds track and 'no' Swiss made?

Anyway by 30/40 people were moving away from round watches to 'formed' watches.

Sincerely
Adam
 
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Maybe this helps: my Watch is 37mm in diameter...
Well in general watches got bigger and bigger each year a phenomenon that has never stopped.

1910s mens watches were very small 32mm - 35 mm in general. Ladies even smaller
Then they get bigger.
So, not an exact science, but indication.
To me late 1920s or early 30s (mid latest)

Adam
 
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37mm certainly suggests late thirties. Over time there have been several times when large wristwatches were fashionable (as they are now) and one of those times was the late thirties when there was a reaction against the small rectangular watches of the early thirties.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So bottom line this is a Watch from '30's or late '30's, but only with a tradename (Ancre) and not a trademark. I understand correctly? :)
 

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37mm certainly suggests late thirties. Over time there have been several times when large wristwatches were fashionable (as they are now) and one of those times was the late thirties when there was a reaction against the small rectangular watches of the early thirties.
Agreed.
Also there are no similarities to the linked watch and movement, bar dial colour.
Bob.
 
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So bottom line this is a Watch from '30's or late '30's, but only with a tradename (Ancre) and not a trademark. I understand correctly? :)
If you look at the word "Ancre" here on Mikrolisk: Mikrolisk - The horological trade mark index
you will find several companies incorporating that word in their name, but only one using the single word.
It is a possibility that the use of that word on your watch dial means nothing but "lever" in a horological sense, but I was simply stating that there IS a registered trademark using that word
 
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