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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
An expert antique watch renovator sold me cheaply a fine carefully serviced Matile pivoted detent escapement 1860? original except for case exact duplicate of a Jules Jurgensen of similar age. My regard for the fine old J.J. watches has been diminished lately. A friend has 1880+ repeater 15530 with split second chronograph. Buried under chrono parts is a complete LeCoultre repeater, not just parts. I have one which may be a real J.J. repeater 14204 made with parts from Audemars. The Matile movement even looks better finished than the valuable J.J. Wonder who made it? Read Nardin designed the pivoted detent for this one.
 

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Interesting watch, thanks for sharing
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Interesting variety of detent designs, surprised at early origin. Nardin attributed with the design of the version as in these J.J. and Matile, not as originator.
 

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Great purchase Art, beautiful high quality work from
Locle.
I've never heard of Matile but with the division of specialised
workshops at this time, I would think made by the same hands as
the J.J
I love the functional simplicity and robustness of Locle watches,
very pleasing to behold.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
A google for Matile shows a few 18k cased fine watches that look like direct competition with the best, but no company info. I was lucky to get this one as an unknown in its cheap old brass case for value of a no-gold cased U.S. r.r. watch. I am hoping someone will see this and impart some Matile history and product description. The previous owner is very skillfull and experienced knowing this was a fine piece of work, but like the usual NAWCC member is not greedy and was practical about his valuing of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I have verified to my regret that Jules Jergensen, as far as commercial sales was concerned, was primarily a superb finisher with emphasis on highest quality. Not much of an innovater. Only mentionable patent I know was the bow setting no one else wanted to use. Complete movements and parts came from fine Swiss sources; Audemars primarily, James Nardin, Matile and of course LeCoultre. Can anyone suggest a written valid reference for J.J. history? Little info I have seen reads like promotional advertising. I would place Dietrich and Fred Gruen ahead of Jules in watchmaking and commercial accomplishment. A superficial collector opinion from ownership, observation, reading, and what I have been told. Comments pro and con solicited. Another fine contemporary Locle maker was James Nardin I would rate above J.J. and of course Gruen. He at least developed a refined pivoted detent escapement Matile and others used and copied. Example of one of his very fine chronometer watches here. Became Ulysse Nardin. Wish I owned it. Looks like a J.J. Maybe J.J. built it for him? Or the same home based workers did it? Saw in 2004 NAWCC Bulletin today this exactly identical movement in J.J. bow setting fine gold case serial 11103.
 

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That is a fine Nardin with the long lever pivoted outside the large
balance.
I have a similar Locle watch dismantled on my bench and the quality
is truly superb.

I found the names Meylan & Guignard stamped under the winding bridge,
I've never heard of these 'ebauche'? makers and information is hard to
come by.
It is the watch from this thread, I'll probably leave it unassembled till the weekend
so's I can take some pics in the daylight....
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/pocket-watch-flags-unknown-maker-414494.html
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Radger: Nice to see what you are doing and finding. I am trying to verify Meylan as a movement maker for the best Gruen 1915+ Dietrich marked ones. Not really surprised to know Meylan name is in a J.J. and Nardin look-a-like, and appreciate your reporting.
 

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Pritchard lists a Meylan & Guignard Freres, Le Lieu, Geneve
The firm was founded as Etienne Meylan in 1847.An ad in the Journal Suisse d’ Horlogerie in 1876 gave their name as Meylan & Guignard Freres and called them makers of precision horology. They could supply blank movements in all calibers used by Ulysse Le Coultre.
An ad in the JSH 2 they made simple watches and all complications in all sizes; they specialized in stem winds, repeaters, independent seconds, chronographs, calendars, chronometers etc.
The firm presented a remarkable collection of 32 movements at the Paris Exhibition in 1878. These included 7 to 8 ligne movements, others with diverse complications such as quarter repeaters, simple and perpetual calendars and moon phases. One movement contained all the complications. They won a Gold Medal first class from the National Academy in France in 1879, a silver medal 1878, a diploma in 1878 and a First Class medal for movements at the National exhibition of Horology at La Chaux de Fonds in 1881.
I hope this helps to show that this was an excellent movement maker.
It also shows how the different makers bought movements from different suppliers, refined it and put their name to it.
 

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Pritchard lists a Meylan & Guignard Freres, Le Lieu, Geneve
The firm was founded as Etienne Meylan in 1847.An ad in the Journal Suisse d’ Horlogerie in 1876 gave their name as Meylan & Guignard Freres and called them makers of precision horology. They could supply blank movements in all calibers used by Ulysse Le Coultre.
An ad in the JSH 2 they made simple watches and all complications in all sizes; they specialized in stem winds, repeaters, independent seconds, chronographs, calendars, chronometers etc.
The firm presented a remarkable collection of 32 movements at the Paris Exhibition in 1878. These included 7 to 8 ligne movements, others with diverse complications such as quarter repeaters, simple and perpetual calendars and moon phases. One movement contained all the complications. They won a Gold Medal first class from the National Academy in France in 1879, a silver medal 1878, a diploma in 1878 and a First Class medal for movements at the National exhibition of Horology at La Chaux de Fonds in 1881.
I hope this helps to show that this was an excellent movement maker.
It also shows how the different makers bought movements from different suppliers, refined it and put their name to it.
Thank you very much Kurtnz for that great information.
That really has made my day.
 
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