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Discussion Starter #1
I was offered a Omega Seamaster 600m Ploprof yesterday, I love the watch but I don´t have a good idea how much this watch is worth. I have seen a few for just under 4000$ but they are in very good condition. This one have the blue dial and is a lefthand model on an aftermarket rubber strap. No box or papers, the price asked is 2500€(3200$).Watch is working fine but have many scratches and it´s in need for a big service.

How much should I pay for it?

Thanks in advance

__________________________________
Jim

Kobold Soarway Diver
Rolex Seadweller
Omega Speedmaster Professional
Tag Heuer Monaco
 
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I don't know much about this most hallowed of divers, but I would think that the fact that it is a lefty would justify a hike in value.
The Ploprof has never been sold as a "righty" by Omega.
If the crown is positioned on the right side of the case @ 3 o'clock the watch has been modified, hopefully by a competent watchmaker.
The bezel-locking function is practically impossible to operate if the red button is located at the bottom left of the case.

As far as pricing it is hard to say without seeing the actual watch.
Which type of hands, which generation dial, which generation bezel etc etc.

I would personally not pay that asking price for a Ploprof without an Omega strap/bracelet/mesh. Especially one with a banged up case and in dire need of service.
In fact my offer would not even by close to that amount. ;-)

/Stefan
 

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Would have to agree completely with Stefan ,

The PloProf is a lefty , but the movement can very simply be rotated to wear it the other way.

Crown on the left, is to avoid it snagging on anything whilst Diving.

The good thing about Vintage Omega`s ,is that Omega in Bienne will service and renovate the watch beautifully,and even a banged up PloProf should not cost more than $600-$800 to completely restore (will return looking immaculate,and have a full 2 yr Warranty) .......Bienne also sells the 24mm Mesh bracelet at a third of the price of anyone else.

I woud think an offer of $2600-$2800 would be good, taking into account what you will spend at Omega on restoration.

all the best,
Vic :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks,
I just needed a second oppinnion, I agree with Stefan that the price is to high considering the condition of the watch. I think its better to look for one in better condition and with orginal bracelets etc. Its nice to here that Omega still do this kind of renovations and that they still have spare parts for these timepieces.

Thanks,

Jim
 

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Would have to agree completely with Stefan ,

The PloProf is a lefty , but the movement can very simply be rotated to wear it the other way.

Crown on the left, is to avoid it snagging on anything whilst Diving.

The good thing about Vintage Omega`s ,is that Omega in Bienne will service and renovate the watch beautifully,and even a banged up PloProf should not cost more than $600-$800 to completely restore (will return looking immaculate,and have a full 2 yr Warranty) .......Bienne also sells the 24mm Mesh bracelet at a third of the price of anyone else.

I woud think an offer of $2600-$2800 would be good, taking into account what you will spend at Omega on restoration.

all the best,
Vic :)
I agree Vic has good knowledge on Ploprof's i'd laways check with Him before making a purchase.:) .
 

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The Ploprof has never been sold as a "righty" by Omega.
If the crown is positioned on the right side of the case @ 3 o'clock the watch has been modified, hopefully by a competent watchmaker.
The bezel-locking function is practically impossible to operate if the red button is located at the bottom left of the case.

As far as pricing it is hard to say without seeing the actual watch.
Which type of hands, which generation dial, which generation bezel etc etc.

I would personally not pay that asking price for a Ploprof without an Omega strap/bracelet/mesh. Especially one with a banged up case and in dire need of service.
In fact my offer would not even by close to that amount. ;-)

/Stefan

The very 1st Polprof has the crown at 3 o'clock position and red-pusher at 7 o'clock position. They are called "Inverse Polprof". These are the early Polprof which has the caliber 1001. The dial are also different from the subsequent Polprof.

inverse.jpg


Subsequent Polprof which has the black and blue dial uses the caliber 1002 and 1000 respectively.

However later Polprof can be change to become "Inverse Polprof" simply by rotating the movement. The main clue to spot the different of an "Inverse Polprof" is the dial.
 

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Stefan and Vic are correct, though I might consider $3200 for a PloProf, depending on the condition. I'd have to see photos and possibly handle the watch.

The PloProf has always had a blue dial, never a black. It's always been intended to have the button on the upper right and the crown on the left. As explained above the watch can be assembled in a reversed condition. As such, any of the 3 dial types might be found as an inverse PloProf.

Do not rely on the AQ catalog for information. There are errors in the descriptions and the photos have been heavily Photoshopped.
 
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The very 1st Polprof has the crown at 3 o'clock position and red-pusher at 7 o'clock position. They are called "Inverse Polprof". These are the early Polprof which has the caliber 1001. The dial are also different from the subsequent Polprof.


Subsequent Polprof which has the black and blue dial uses the caliber 1002 and 1000 respectively.

However later Polprof can be change to become "Inverse Polprof" simply by rotating the movement. The main clue to spot the different of an "Inverse Polprof" is the dial.
That is a very interesting statement.
However, Jean-Luc Miranda at the Omega museum (Vintage Information) does not agree with your statement.
Below is his response to this exact question when asked by a member on a Swedish watch forum.

"Dear Mr. [name witheld],

Thanks for your message and interest in the Seamaster 600 PloProf

Here is a full description of this watch style (one of the pieces we own in our Museum) and some pictures. Please note that if the crown is on the right side and the red button at 8 o'clock it is a wrong assembly of the case (we have already experienced this type of wrong assembly with some customers). Of course, it can be also useful for the left-handed people but no Seamaster 600 PloProf has been assembled this way before leaving our factory.


OMEGA Automatic Seamaster 600 m / 2000 ft Professional ("Ploprof"), 1970: Ultra-resistant and super water-resistant watch for profes*sional di*vers, from which it gets its name ("plo" comes from "plonger" which means "to dive" in French"). Calibre 1002 with date. Monocoque solid steel asymmetric case with screw-in crown at nine o'clock to allow the wrist to move freely, protected by a locking nut (requiring 2 hands to unscrew it) to avoid accidental manipulation and bidirectional notched bezel with locking system controlled by a push-but*ton. Monolytic chemically-soaked mineral crystal treated with anti-reflective and anti-abrasive material pressed to 120 kg, then held on the gasket by a screw-in ring. Flat back with circular addendum with anti-slipping mechanism, Isofrane (synthetic rubber with high chemi*cal and me*chanical qualities bracelet available in blue, red, -orange or yellow), or Milanese bracelet with coat of mail. Internal and external water-resistance system proven by a helium leak detector.* Navy blue or black dial ensuring perfect legibility even at great depths, minute-circle, tritium hour markers, luminous hands, the minute hands (the most useful ones when diving) are super large-sized and are off set by a fluorescent orange surround. (ST 166.0077)
NB As this model's dial can be shifted by 180 degrees, sometimes these pieces can be wound up incorrectly during repairs by a careless repairer or who mistakenly thinks that it is done correctly by positioning the crown at three o'clock. Doing this moves the (red) locking push piece of the turning bezel to seven o'clock , making the latter very difficult to move using a single finger!

* The professional most frequently uses a diving bell in which he can breathe in a mixture of oxygen and helium. If his/her watch is not especially adapted so as to not let in these gases, it would fill with helium and explode on reaching the surface. However, in contrast to its competitors who created models with helium release valves , Omega chose the option of preventing the helium from entering the watch in the first place as, if this happens, it can affect the watch's precision by damaging the sprung balance. And it makes the Ploprof resistant to gases to such an extent that if the air in its case were to be expelled– in normal atmospheric conditions – more than 1000 years would go by before it oculd re-enter.

The Ploprof would be scrupulously analysed by the American diving research centre Ocean Systems Inc. in Tarrytown, NY, which concluded that, taking into account the appropriate proportions, the timepiece is more resistant than a submarine!

Tested to 600 m at the factory and to 1 000 m in the Gulf of Lion off the coast of Marseilles, it was notably used by Com*mander Cousteau during a series of experiments de*signed to test man's physical and psychological capaci*ties to work at depths of around 500 metres. In 1970, in opera*tion "Janus", it spent 4 hours a day for eight days on the wrist of 3 divers from COMEX, an oil re*search firm which was ex*ploring the sea floor (250 m depth) in the Gulf of Ajaccio.

Thanks for your confidence in our products and best regards.


Jean-Luc Miranda
OMEGA MUSEUM - Vintage Information
"

If you have a better source of information regarding Ploprof history, please share it with the rest of us.

/Stefan
 

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Stefan, he was getting all that out of the AQ catalog. Like I said, it's inaccurate at best. As I've posted elsewhere, the AQ photos have been Photoshopped to match their inaccurate descriptions - it's all very disappointing.

JLM's info is also available for anyone to view if you register on the Omega Traditions web site. If you search by the reference number (166.0077), you'll find it.

What I find interesting - and it may be a tempest in a teapot - is his description of a "blue or black" dial. IME, and I've looked at a number of Type I dials in the flesh and in photos, there is no black dial. The Type I is very dark blue and can often look black in photos or with age/water damage. But if you directly compare it to an Omega black dial from the era (e.g. an SM300, SM120 or SM200), you can see that it's midnight blue and not black.

I'd love to have the chance to discuss this with Mr. Miranda some day!
 

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Also, you can't just rotate the movement. The date ring has to be changed. If the movement is rotated 180 degrees, because there are an odd number of days spaced equally around the ring, the date will not align with the window in the dial.

Mitch
 

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Also, you can't just rotate the movement. The date ring has to be changed. If the movement is rotated 180 degrees, because there are an odd number of days spaced equally around the ring, the date will not align with the window in the dial.

Mitch
Mitch, I'm not so sure about this. When I sent my 'inverse' PloProf to STS a few years ago for a service, they returned it to me with the correct alignment. They did not bill me for a date wheel (but they did ping me for everything else, including VAT :-|).

Similarly, I've another PloProf mate who has had his watch reversed without the need for a new date wheel. I've also known guys who paid for a new date wheel with a reversal during a non-Omega Bienne service.

Any discussion/experience on this is welcome. This is one of the FAQs we're putting up on the DeskDivers.com site and I've heard stories both ways. I suppose we should ask Bienne!
 

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Mitch, I'm not so sure about this. When I sent my 'inverse' PloProf to STS a few years ago for a service, they returned it to me with the correct alignment. They did not bill me for a date wheel (but they did ping me for everything else, including VAT :-|).

Similarly, I've another PloProf mate who has had his watch reversed without the need for a new date wheel. I've also known guys who paid for a new date wheel with a reversal during a non-Omega Bienne service.

Any discussion/experience on this is welcome. This is one of the FAQs we're putting up on the DeskDivers.com site and I've heard stories both ways. I suppose we should ask Bienne!
Colin, it can't work because when you have an odd number of dates equally spaced around the ring, there will never be two dates 180 degrees across from each other. I just tried this on an LM-1 dial which is a crown at 4, date at 6 configuration. With the dial installed normally showing the date at 6, the 22nd was correctly centered. When I rotated it so the crown was at 10, the number 7 was mostly visible but too far to the right in the date window.

When movements are ordered you always have to specify the crown position and date window position.

Mitch
 

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Roger, understand that.

Can the date wheel not be adjusted? If the answer is no for a 2824, is no for all movements (e.g. the cal 1002)?

Or does the date wheel fit only one way on every movement?
 

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Roger, understand that.

Can the date wheel not be adjusted? If the answer is no for a 2824, is no for all movements (e.g. the cal 1002)?

Or does the date wheel fit only one way on every movement?
The date ring has teeth around the circumference and a click that snaps in place between the teeth when the date is advanced. There is no way to adjust it on the 2824. The movement in the PloProf works the same way as does every conventional movement that I can think of that uses a date ring. I restored my PloProf over a year ago, and I don't remember exactly how the date advance mechanism works on that movement.

Mitch
 

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The date ring has teeth around the circumference and a click that snaps in place between the teeth when the date is advanced. There is no way to adjust it on the 2824. The movement in the PloProf works the same way as does every conventional movement that I can think of that uses a date ring. I restored my PloProf over a year ago, and I don't remember exactly how the date advance mechanism works on that movement.

Mitch
Mitch,

I have owned several PloProfs, and at one point had one serviced by a Master Watchmaker in NYC .He initially put it back together inversed (unknowingly),but I then asked him to correct it ......the original date wheel, worked on the PP when it was inversed
:think:

My current PloProf :



All the best,
Vic :)
 

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Very strange, Vic. I don't see how it could work. I should have tried it the other way when I restored my PloProf last year. I'd really like to know the answer to this, but not enough to take the thing apart again!

One possibility is that single digit dates appear to be centered in the date window at first glance.

Mitch
 

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Mitch, I'll bring one with me in May and maybe we'll have time to sort through some of this (if I can't get to it before then).
 
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Considering the number of inversed Ploprofs out there, I'd be really surprised if it required some special measures to do it.

If any of you guys would have the time/energy to "dive into" this matter further it would be interesting to hear the results! :)

/Stefan
 

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Colin, I think the only way to figure this out is to disassemble a watch and rotate the dial. It really is a pain to disect one of these because the guts come out throught the top (thought I'd use medical terminology for you).

Stefan, it's not difficult to source date rings, but of course that offers no proof either way.

Mitch
 
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