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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all, I should have the opportunity to buy my first higher end watch soon, so I'm considering a few options. These two look pretty attractive to me at the moment, but they both have some big drawbacks for me. I'd like to draw on the experiences of the members here to see how the two models compare, or if there are other options out there that would be better. At the moment, I see the breakdown like this:

Speedmaster Advantages:
-Good looking, decorated movement with display back
-Movement is not generic and is slow wearing
-Coaxial escapement
-Push button clasp

Speedmaster Disadvantages:
-No date
-Movement could become difficult or cost prohibitive to repair in the future, like previous Speedmasters
-No hacking
-Slow beat movement doesn't sweep as nicely
-Not a chronometer despite high cost
-Seems like a low jewel count for a chrono

Avenger Advantages
-Chronometer
-Better water resistance
-Date

Avenger Disadvantages
-No display back
-Same movement as my Victorinox
-Doesn't come in the matte titanium anymore?

I'm particularly interested to see how the movements compare in the opinions of members here. Looking at the Speedmaster movement, I don't see how it's better than the 7750. Perhaps I'm missing something? I'm also curious to see how the bracelets compare in how much they rattle and how comfortable they are. I'm open to other suggestions, but I am at the upper limit of my budget with these. The Zeniths and column wheel Speedmasters look amazing, but unless there's a way to get them cheaper than the prices I see for them, I don't think I can go that high. I would be interested in other options with in house movements or special features like extended power reserves or column wheel pushers. I'm also not dead set on a chrono (If I end up having to get something cheaper, I'll probably get a Citizen Chronomaster). Thanks in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Most likely the sapphire sandwich. It would be a shame to have a that nice looking of a movement unobstructed by a rotor and cover it with a steel back, IMO.
 

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Ah - the pro. The single most recommended watch on this board is probably going to trump the Breitling!

I can only comment in my 7750-powered TAG: firstly the running small sub seconds will appear smooth even in a 14k watch at that size. So it's only when the chronograph is running that it matters. The chrono second hand in my TAG is jerky as hell compared to my other 28k movements - 2824 and 2836. Someone said it was because it's tentioned under a spring that it jumps. I assume that the Breitling would do the same - maybe someone can confirm.
 

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Have you looked at the Longines? They are doing some beautiful watches and the quality is tops.
 

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Firstly, if its the speedy pro its not coaxial.

Im not going to say get one or the other as they are quite different looking chronos.

Other options are:

Tag carrera 1887 (in house ish movement)

Zenith el primero pilot big date- love this and if you can find one online within budget it would be top of the list for me
 

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geoffbot; The chrono second hand in my TAG is jerky as hell compared to my other 28k movements - 2824 and 2836. Someone said it was because it's tentioned under a spring that it jumps. I assume that the Breitling would do the same - maybe someone can confirm.[/QUOTE said:
The chrono hand on my Superavenger seems relatively smooth on activation. It does have that snappy reset like all 7750's if that's what you mean by jerky.

I'm biased because I bought my Breitling (pretty much the same watch as the Avenger) over the Omega so I will be one of the few who recommends it. If you like the Speedy more, the Sapphire Sandwich or the 9300 are the way to go IMO. Best of luck with your purchase

 

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Apperance is personal, though the Breitling "King of Bling" look turns some off and the more tool like Speedy look is generally favored by those who dislike the former.
But you like the fact that the Breitling has the same movement as your Victorinox. Pretty generic that. Do you want an in-house mvmnt or not?



Difficult to repair? Omega offers repair for more older watches than any other manufacturer I've seen talked about here. Cost prohibitive? Maybe, but any chrono is going to cost youmore than a non-chrono. Still, I guess it's one of those situations where if you are worried about the cost up front you might be better off not buying it. You are wise to consider that - but the Breitling will cost you too, but a little less.
Low jewel count? Well, jewels are there to prolong service intervals, so is the service interval shorter than other, more jewel-blessed chronos? Nope.



If you need a chronometer fine - but you will have to service it more often to keep it that way (see above remarks re: servive cost) and even most humble 3570 Speedys preform at or close to COSC.
Water resistance? do you NEED it? How much? Speedys will go in a pool, you need more maybe you should get a diver chrono.



Display backs are great - for a month or so, after that they become just 1 more potential source of a water leak, and you wanted MORE water resistance right? Oh, and it's going to cost more to properly reseal that sucker too!
 

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The chrono hand on my Superavenger seems relatively smooth on activation. It does have that snappy reset like all 7750's if that's what you mean by jerky.

I'm biased because I bought my Breitling (pretty much the same watch as the Avenger) over the Omega so I will be one of the few who recommends it. If you like the Speedy more, the Sapphire Sandwich or the 9300 are the way to go IMO. Best of luck with your purchase

Nope - I mean jerky I.e. non smooth movement around the dial.
 

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The Speedy Pro sapphire sandwich is an awesome watch (likely my next up). You get the practicality of sapphire, all the history of the that great movement with the opportunity to gaze at it. The style is simple, no nonsense, and timeless. It will likely be just as versatile in 25 years as it is today. Few watches have this sort of timeless appeal. The busy dial of many Breitlings (they are not alone here) leaves them looking dated too soon for my liking.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the replies so far!

Firstly, if its the speedy pro its not coaxial.

Im not going to say get one or the other as they are quite different looking chronos.

Other options are:

Tag carrera 1887 (in house ish movement)

Zenith el primero pilot big date- love this and if you can find one online within budget it would be top of the list for me
Really? My understanding was that the Speedy Pro does have coaxial escapements, and that Omega even modifies the ETA movements to include this feature. It just doesn't have the column wheel pusher system that the higher end Speedys do, but a cam system instead. I'd be interested to try a column wheel watch, since I certainly do feel an improvement in feel of my cam operated 7750 over my lever actuated Poljot 3133. And the Zeniths do look great; that would probably be my pick if I could find them within budget.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ah - the pro. The single most recommended watch on this board is probably going to trump the Breitling!

I can only comment in my 7750-powered TAG: firstly the running small sub seconds will appear smooth even in a 14k watch at that size. So it's only when the chronograph is running that it matters. The chrono second hand in my TAG is jerky as hell compared to my other 28k movements - 2824 and 2836. Someone said it was because it's tentioned under a spring that it jumps. I assume that the Breitling would do the same - maybe someone can confirm.
This is true, although I do notice the difference when looking closely at my 8bps 7750 vs my 6bps Poljot. It's nothing major, but if I'm going this far upstream I'd like to see considerably more refinement than I can get in the much cheaper Russian movements.

Apperance is personal, though the Breitling "King of Bling" look turns some off and the more tool like Speedy look is generally favored by those who dislike the former.
But you like the fact that the Breitling has the same movement as your Victorinox. Pretty generic that. Do you want an in-house mvmnt or not?



Difficult to repair? Omega offers repair for more older watches than any other manufacturer I've seen talked about here. Cost prohibitive? Maybe, but any chrono is going to cost youmore than a non-chrono. Still, I guess it's one of those situations where if you are worried about the cost up front you might be better off not buying it. You are wise to consider that - but the Breitling will cost you too, but a little less.
Low jewel count? Well, jewels are there to prolong service intervals, so is the service interval shorter than other, more jewel-blessed chronos? Nope.



If you need a chronometer fine - but you will have to service it more often to keep it that way (see above remarks re: servive cost) and even most humble 3570 Speedys preform at or close to COSC.
Water resistance? do you NEED it? How much? Speedys will go in a pool, you need more maybe you should get a diver chrono.



Display backs are great - for a month or so, after that they become just 1 more potential source of a water leak, and you wanted MORE water resistance right? Oh, and it's going to cost more to properly reseal that sucker too!
I'm on the fence about the 7750. I would much prefer to have an in house movement that some interesting horological features over the 7750, but if that means that the watch could become very difficult to repair and service in the future, I might be willing to play it safe with another 7750. I had heard that some of the earlier Omega Speedys are difficult to get service for because the parts aren't available for those movements. Is this not true?

Also, COSC or brand name are not of paramount importance to me, but I do take them into consideration. While they do nothing to the function of the watch, I would be hesitant to pay the same price for a non-COSC obscure brand as for a typical brand name chronometer. My reasoning is that I would be paying only for exclusivity in that case, and I'd prefer to get a watch that will hold its value due to advertising and likely have parts available for a long time like brand name watches will. If I see something really unique from an obscure brand, though, I might make an exception.

Finally, the water resistance isn't a huge priority for me, just thought I'd throw that in there. Honestly, the biggest downside to the Speedy Pro I see is the lack of a date feature. But I'm also quite curious to see how the design and quality of the movement stacks up to the benchmark 7750 or other options in the opinions of watch enthusiasts here. From reading the threads here, it seems that the movement sacrifices refinement for longevity and durability relative to the 7750?

Again, thank you all for the responses. I will take a closer look at Longines. Also, if anyone could point me to some reputable dealers known for good pricing, I would very much appreciate it.
 

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Thanks for all the replies so far!



Really? My understanding was that the Speedy Pro does have coaxial escapements, and that Omega even modifies the ETA movements to include this feature. It just doesn't have the column wheel pusher system that the higher end Speedys do, but a cam system instead. I'd be interested to try a column wheel watch, since I certainly do feel an improvement in feel of my cam operated 7750 over my lever actuated Poljot 3133. And the Zeniths do look great; that would probably be my pick if I could find them within budget.
The speedy pro does not have the co-axial movement.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have to admit I find that quite disappointing. I'll still consider the Pro due to the beautifully decorated movement, though. It looks better than the upscale coaxial Speedy IMO. There don't seem to be too many options out there with well decorated chrono movements and no auto rotor to obscure them. I guess I'll cast a wider net and do some more research, too. Does anyone have any alternative suggestions, or info on the quality of the Speedy Pro movement? I'm looking for something with a combination of the following features:

-A good bracelet, preferably with a push button clasp
-A decorated movement with a display back
-If possible, features like chronograph (I know I've only mentioned considering chronos, but this is not essential), hi-beat, column wheel pushers, vertical clutch, extended power reserve, coaxial escapement, etc
-In-house movement
-Date
-Some measure of future proofing

Obviously I don't expect to have everything within my price range. Basically I'm looking for something geared towards the horology obsessed watch geeks. I'm willing to sacrifice some of the features, or perhaps I should save up longer and get something higher end. I've been hearing that Zeniths can be had at heavy discounts. Where are people finding these deals?
 

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I have to admit I find that quite disappointing. I'll still consider the Pro due to the beautifully decorated movement, though. It looks better than the upscale coaxial Speedy IMO. There don't seem to be too many options out there with well decorated chrono movements and no auto rotor to obscure them. I guess I'll cast a wider net and do some more research, too. Does anyone have any alternative suggestions, or info on the quality of the Speedy Pro movement? I'm looking for something with a combination of the following features:

-A good bracelet, preferably with a push button clasp
-A decorated movement with a display back
-If possible, features like chronograph (I know I've only mentioned considering chronos, but this is not essential), hi-beat, column wheel pushers, vertical clutch, extended power reserve, coaxial escapement, etc
-In-house movement
-Date
-Some measure of future proofing

Obviously I don't expect to have everything within my price range. Basically I'm looking for something geared towards the horology obsessed watch geeks. I'm willing to sacrifice some of the features, or perhaps I should save up longer and get something higher end. I've been hearing that Zeniths can be had at heavy discounts. Where are people finding these deals?
The movement in the speedy is not an eta base like the other omegas. It is made by lemania purely for the speed master. It is a fantastic movement and although not in house it is certainly unique as it is in no other watch.

I love the sapphire sandwich, if you want a handwind chrono there are none better in that price range. Zenith does a handwind version of the EP too but you lose out on the whole history of the ep being the first auto chrono movement.
 

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When I was looking at the Speedmasters, I did what I'm about to recommend to you. Get the Speedmaster, but with the hesalite crystal. Nothing against the Breitling, but if I were to choose a Breitling to go up against the Speedmaster, I'd choose one with a little more pedigree to it--the Navitimer.
 
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The movement in the speedy is not an eta base like the other omegas. It is made by lemania purely for the speed master. It is a fantastic movement and although not in house it is certainly unique as it is in no other watch.
My Speedmaster has had quartz-like accuracy since I got it, if that's a consideration.
 

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When I was looking at the Speedmasters, I did what I'm about to recommend to you. Get the Speedmaster, but with the hesalite crystal. Nothing against the Breitling, but if I were to choose a Breitling to go up against the Speedmaster, I'd choose one with a little more pedigree to it--the Navitimer.
Yes! I agree!
 
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