[KaiTak]

Does anyone know what year Omega started putting the world logo on the back of their watches?
I'm due to picked up a Speedmaster Pro 3570 moon watch and hoping it's was made/manufactured in the last 2 years.
I've seen a moon watch on Ebay which had a logo and a serial number starting 77XXXXXX but could not work out the year from the serial number database as it only went up to 2008 (84XXXXXX).

Thanks

 

[DaBaeker]

I [we] think you are referring to what is commonly misconstrued as the anti-counterfeiting globe with omega logos inside? I actually read it was not so much an anti-counterfeit measure but something Omega did to control distribution and sales of their POs. ( at big ADs like at Costco) anyway-I don't think there is a definitive date anyone has come up with except for sometime in mid 2007. But after 07 i think they all should have the etched symbol

 

[Spit161]

I [we] think you are referring to what is commonly misconstrued as the anti-counterfeiting globe with omega logos inside? I actually read it was not so much an anti-counterfeit measure but something Omega did to control distribution and sales of their POs. ( at big ADs like at Costco) anyway-I don't think there is a definitive date anyone has come up with except for sometime in mid 2007. But after 07 i think they all should have the etched symbol

+1.
No-one can come up with a definitive date.

cheers,
Jake.

 

[John Price]

Just a little data point - my 2009 PO doesn't have the world logo.

 

[Cristobal]

My 2254.50 from 2006 has this logo.

 

[Omega 1120]

Omega first started putting the Omega globe on the back of their watches in 2003. Omega created it so they could Copyright it in order to get the U.S. Government to control importation into the U.S. using laws protecting Copyrighted merchandise.

I have a 2531.80 with serial number 80597xxx that has the globe. I have seen 2531.80's on EBay with serial numbers 80593xxx, 8057xxxx, and 8056xxxx with no globe. Omega verified by email the date of manufacture of my watch as 2003. The court document below says 2003. So I am pretty sure the globe was introduced in 2003.

Omega's court motion says:

"Omega began selling watches bearing the Omega Globe Design in September 2003." (Page 3)

http://senlawoffice.com/exclusiveri...megas-Renewed-Motion-for-Summary-Judgment.pdf

Here is the link to the U.S. District Court case (where I clipped the above pic):

http://www.collenip.com/costcoomega...n to Omega's Motion for Summary Judgement.pdf

Here is the link to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal Case:

http://www.collenip.com/costcoomega/9th Circuit - Costco Petition for Rehearsing En Banc.pdf

Here is another 9th Circuit with some interesting facts about Omega, including the name of the artist that made the globe and other interesting tidbits about the globe (page 19):

http://www.collenip.com/costcoomega/9th Circuit - Omega's Opening Brief requesting appeal.pdf

U.S. Supreme Court opinion:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1423.pdf

 

[KaiTak]

This is confusing :-s According to the above posts Omega introduce the logo in 2003, one person confirm's they have the logo on their 2006 watch but someone else confirm's they haven't got the logo on their 2009 watch which should be a younger (made) watch.
Anyone buying Omega watch without the logo would probably think it is at least 7-8 years old.o|

Does anyone know why Omega watches post 2003 doesn't have the logo?

 

[Spit161]

Does anyone know why Omega watches post 2003 doesn't have the logo?

My, now sold, black 2221.80 did not, yet my newer blue 2221.80 does.

cheers,
Jake.

 

[Francois Boucher]

Does anyone know why Omega watches post 2003 doesn't have the logo?

Thanks to Omega 1120, we can understand better how this all works.

As I understand from this document, the Omega Globe logo was engraved on Omega models sold in Europe. It should never have been found on watches sold in the Americas.

The fact that it was found on watches sold by Costco in California infringed on copyright laws, and proved that these watches had been obtained by Costco outside of regular channels:

IV. STATEMENT OF FACTS

A. The parties and their relations

Omega manufactures OMEGA brand watches only in Switzerland. Omega distributes its watches throughout the world, including the U.S., exclusively through a network of authorized distributors and dealers, many of whom are Omega's affiliates.

The Swatch Group (U.S.) Inc., is Omega's exclusive U.S. importer and distributor of OMEGA brand watches.

Swatch only sells and distributes OMEGA brand watches to authorized retailers in the United States.

Costco engages in wholesale club retail services. Costco has never been authorized by Omega or Swatch to import, copy, sell or distribute OMEGA brand watches.

Prior to this lawsuit, Cosrtco approached Omega to discuss Costco's interest in carrying OMEGA brand watches. Costco wanted to purchase OMEGA brand watches directly from Omega's authorized channels, but threatened to obtain the watches from "outside sources" if Omega refused to supply them with the cheapest prices, best payment terms, most popular styles, and necessary inventories.

Omega decided that Costco did not fit within its distribution plan and brand image.

Through an unauthorized source, known by Costco to be fulfilling its orders for specific high demand models from sources outside the U.S., Costco sought and obtained OMEGA brand watchres bearing the copyrighted Omega Globe Design. [REDACTED]

Omega never intended these copies to be imported or sold into the United States, and in fact, all of the copies at issue were sold to Omega's authorized distributors outside the U.S., for resale in particular geographic territories - excluding the U.S. - Omega never imported, sold or authorized these particular copies in the United States.

[REDACTED] Costco knew these watches were "parallel imports", but claims it was unaware they contained protectible copyright elements, in the form of artwork etched in the case back. Copyright infringement, however, is a strict liability tort - knowledge is not required - and Omega is entitled to prevent the unauthorized importation of its copyrighted works into the United States. Any member of the distribution chain is liable for copyright infringement. Costco's sourcing of these goods from its "secondary markets" infringed Omega's copyright in the Omega Globe Design.

B. The Omega Globe Design

This original artwork was made for hire by Miodrag Mijatovic, a European artist, and his company M Design. The Omega Globe Design is laser-engraved into OMEGA brand watches at Omega's watchmaking facility in Switzerland at the time of manufacture. This artistic enhancement adds an additional cost in manufacturing these goods. Omega obtained Registration No. YAu-574- 660 of its copyright 15 months before filing suit.

C. Costco sold watches bearing the Omega Globe Design that were imported without Omega'sauthority.

In May and July 2004,Omega obtained from two of Costco's retail stores in California watches containing the copyrighted Omega Globe Design. Costco sold these watches for $1,299 - far lower than Omega's authorized retailers (about $1,999). Investigation of serial numbers revealed these particular watches were sold by Omega to its distributors outside the U.S. -- Paraguay,Turkey, Egypt, andIsrael -- under distribution agreements which restricted further resale only within their geographic territory. This lawsuit followed.

 

[xjeeunitx]

I've seen the logos on casebacks of Speedmaster Professional ever since roughly end of 2007.

I've seen serial number as low as 772X having the logo. My 7775 has one as well. I'm assuming it's somewhere in between 771X through 772X that started the logo etching. Of course, these estimations are from my personal experience and is FYI.

 

[GTTIME]

Thanks to Omega 1120, we can understand better how this all works.

As I understand from this document, the Omega Globe logo was engraved on Omega models sold in Europe. It should never have been found on watches sold in the Americas.

The fact that it was found on watches sold by Costco in California infringed on copyright laws, and proved that these watches had been obtained by Costco outside of regular channels:

B. The Omega GlobeDesign

This original artwork was made for hire by Miodrag Mijatovic, a European artist, and his company M Design. The Omega Globe Design is laser-engraved into OMEGA brand watches at Omega's watchmaking facility in Switzerland at the time of manufacture. This artistic enhancement adds an additional cost in manufacturing these goods. Omega obtained Registration No. YAu-574- 660 of its copyright 15 months before filing suit.

C. Costco sold watches bearing the Omega Globe Design that were imported without Omega'sauthority.

In May and July 2004,Omega obtained from two of Costco's retail stores in California watches containing the copyrighted Omega Globe Design. Costco sold these watches for $1,299 - far lower than Omega's authorized retailers (about $1,999). Investigation of serial numbers revealed these particular watches were sold by Omega to its distributors outside the U.S. -- Paraguay,Turkey, Egypt, andIsrael -- under distribution agreements which restricted further resale only within their geographic territory. This lawsuit followed.

You have misunderstood what you read. It was not outside of the US only that got the globe.

The globe is the copyright which enhanced Omegas rights. The serial numbers indicated where the watch was first sold.

 

[Francois Boucher]

You have misunderstood what you read. It was not outside of the US only that got the globe.

The globe is the copyright which enhanced Omegas rights. The serial numbers indicated where the watch was first sold.

Omega never intended these copies to be imported or sold into the United States, and in fact, all of the copies at issue were sold to Omega's authorized distributors outside the U.S., for resale in particular geographic territories - excluding the U.S. - Omega never imported, sold or authorized these particular copies in the United States.

 

[Francois Boucher]

From this document:

B. Omega's Use of the Omega Globe to Attempt to Improperly Control Importation and Costco's Lack of Knowledge of the Design.

While Omega has not designated Costco as an "authorized" dealer of Omega watches, Omega has known for many years that Costco sells Omega watches at its warehouse stores. However, Omega took no legal action against Costco until now because it knew it is not unlawful for Costco to resell genuine Omega watches. Nevertheless, because authorized dealers complained about price competition, Omega's legal department devised a plan to try to prevent these watches from being resold by retailers such as Costco.

In 2003, Omega registered a copyright in the "Omega Globe" with the United States Copyright Office and placed a tiny engraving of the Globe on the back edge of one of its best selling watches, the Seamaster Model 2531.80. Yann Gamard ("Gamard"), the highest ranking representative of Omega's U.S. affiliate, the Swatch Group ("TSG"), testified that the Omega Globe was designed and used by Omega specifically to control the importation of Omega watches and "to prevent unauthorized dealership."

Omega did not inform Costco of its plan. To the contrary, at the same time Omega was placing the Omega Globe on its Seamaster Watch, Omega led Costco to believe that it might be interested in Costco becoming an "authorized" dealer of Omega watches. Gamard and other top officials of TSG met with Costco representatives on several occasions to discuss Omega's selling watches directly to Costco. Gamard invited several Costco representatives to meet with him at TSG's New Jersey headquarters and thereafter offered to fly to Costco's Seattle headquarters to discuss a business relationship. These discussions took place at the same time that, unbeknownst to Costco, Omega was placing the Omega Globe on its watches

Omega did not conceal the Omega Globe only from Costco. It made a conscious decision not to publicize the Omega Globe at all. The Omega Globe was not only tiny and hidden on the back of the Seamaster Watch, but Omega's Vice President of International Sales, Raynald Aeschlimann ("Aeschlimann"), testified that Omega intended to keep the Omega Globe confidential from all outsiders, including its own distributors and consumers at large.

Omega has no evidence that it marketed or advertised the Globe in any way, and it was obviously not a feature that enhanced the watch or its attractiveness to consumers.

C. Costco's Purchase and Sale of the Omega Seamaster Watches Containing the Omega Globe.

Costco has purchased Omega watches and resold them to members in its warehouses for many years.

In calendar year 2004, among the many Omega watches it purchased were 117 Seamaster style Omega watches, Model No. 2531.80, containing the Omega Globe. Costco sold 43 of these watches to its members in calendar year 2004. Costco did not import these watches. Rather, it obtained them from one of its suppliers, ENE Ltd. ("ENE), F.O.B. New York.

After this action was filed, Costco learned, through documents produced in the lawsuit, that ENE obtained many of these watches from Timeworks, Inc. in New York, which in turn obtained them from Switzerland - a territory in which Omega admits that it imposes no contractual, territorial restrictions on resales.

In July 2004, Omega filed this copyright action against Costco, and shortly thereafter filed a motion for preliminary injunction. After receiving Omega's motion for preliminary injunction, Costco voluntarily stopped selling the watches and decided not to oppose the motion on the merits, but rather wait to challenge Omega's claims until it developed a fuller record, which it now has done.

The 74 of the 117 Omega Seamaster watches containing the Omega Globe that Costco purchased from ENE in 2004 that had not been sold are being held by Omega pending the outcome of this lawsuit.

The preliminary injunction was thus issued without Costco or the Court addressing any of the issues raised in this opposition. After it was issued, Costco directed ENE not to send watches to Costco that contained the Omega Globe. Costco properly continued to do business with ENE, buying watches that were not Omegas and buying Omegas that did not have the Omega Globe. On two occasions in 2005 and 2006, however, ENE mistakenly shipped Costco several hundred Globe watches. Costco immediately turned these watches over to Omega

 

[GTTIME]

Omega never intended these copies to be imported or sold into the United States, and in fact, all of the copies at issue were sold to Omega's authorized distributors outside the U.S., for resale in particular geographic territories - excluding the U.S. - Omega never imported, sold or authorized these particular copies in the United States.

Sorry but again that is not the case you are misinterpreting these documents. The globe provided copyright protection it wasn't that it identified non-us watches.

 

[DaBaeker]

ayway-the 'globe' is not the most reliable way to establish legitimacy in used Omegas. There are many other ways to verify and protect yourself from fakes.

Ans as for Omega legal case against Costco- did it not open a whole can of worms about fair use and who (once they purchased a watch with the globe) could resell it to and where?

e.g. I buy a watch in singapore and return to the US and wear it for two years and want to sell it and fund another omega. does this law have any bearing on me personally-??

 

[GaryF]

Sorry but again that is not the case you are misinterpreting these documents. The globe provided copyright protection it wasn't that it identified non-us watches.

No, the globe was the actual thing which was copyrighted. It doesn't provide copyright protection. It is itself protected.
It was not legal for Omega to prosecute Costco for selling legally purchased and correctly represented stock. Copyright laws are tougher though so the globe was invented so that Omega could accuse anyone selling something with that symbol on it of copyright infringement.

 

[GTTIME]

No, the globe was the actual thing which was copyrighted. It doesn't provide copyright protection. It is itself protected.
It was not legal for Omega to prosecute Costco for selling legally purchased and correctly represented stock. Copyright laws are tougher though so the globe was invented so that Omega could accuse anyone selling something with that symbol on it of copyright infringement.

Yes you are exactly right. Sorry if I am not being clear the globe was designed to allow an element of the watch to be copyright thereby allowing copyright and providing the protection of a copyright. My only point is the globe was not created to identify watches intended for markets other than the US. If I understand Francois he is saying a watch with a globe wasn't destined for sale in the US this is simply not the case.

 

[KaiTak]

This sounds like the fight between Tesco vs Levi's in the UK over 10 years ago.

Tesco wanted to sell Levi's 501 jeans in their stores, they wanted to buy from a US Levi's distributor as it was cheaper and would have pass the savings on to their customers, Levi's said no as they didn't want their jeans sold in a supermarket store especially if they are sold below the RRP.

Tesco then went and bought the jeans from a European (Grey Market) distributor and still sold them below the RRP.

It went to the European court where Tesco lost and was told that if they wanted to sell the jeans they had to buy from the Levi's European distributor.

 

[Quartersawn]

If I understand Francois he is saying a watch with a globe wasn't destined for sale in the US this is simply not the case.

I think you are correct. I purchased 2 SMPs in 2008 from a US AD and both had the globe. I have also seen it on many other watches at US ADs.

 

[glenmerica]

Hey guys..very sadly, i sent my watch to be touched up. in the process, the guy actually polished away my globe logo. Do you think that is an important aspect of the watch? Will it affect my resale value if i intent to sell some time in the future?