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Thanks contrate_wheel. Great effort to write such good software and then supply it as open source.

Ran first time on Win 7. This just makes life so much easier. Time with watch with something like watch check or a piece of paper, open it up and make a change that should be very close to what you need.

Thanks everyone else for providing feedback for other items like mikes and amplifiers (which I'm trying to stay away from).
 

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I really don't think it's the software based on the feedback here and my GP is 5 position adjusted (never touched) and tg shows +1 to +2s/d and this is just about what the watch actually runs. but I'm at a loss determining the difference with this watch.
So as we understand, you say you have a GP that tg measures +1 to +2s/d and when you wear the watch you get the same reading. So you can get the software to perform on one watch.
What are the timing errors on the GP and the 007? I don't know what is acceptable but I have just tweaked a few of mine to be 0.1ms.

With the 007 I would start by measuring the watch in one position, say face up, and then put the watch on the shelf, face up, for a day and see what it does.
If you do this in a number of positions and find most are ok then there appears to be one setting which is going very fast.
If you can find that position then you probably need to go to a watchmaker and tell him the story.
 

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For you Vostok fans, Meranom informs me that the lift angle of the auto is 42 degrees and any amplitude over 200 is fine.
My Dirskie is running at 255 degrees .

I didn't specifically ask about the manual winds but expect they will be exactly the same.
 

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For you Vostok fans, Meranom informs me that the lift angle of the auto is 42 degrees and any amplitude over 200 is fine.
My Dirskie is running at 255 degrees .

I didn't specifically ask about the manual winds but expect they will be exactly the same.
 

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Timegrapher cf tg

Just a quick comparison.

The changing traces on tg are a result of my microphone not picking up the signals all the time.
Timegrapher is more stable but one can't complain about the value of tg. Fantastic.

FYI Watch was Parnis Big Pilot with a Seagull movement.

Electronics Technology Electronic device Multimedia Gadget

Line Slope Diagram Technology Parallel
 
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Hi, my friends!

@1afc: Nice! Was tg calibrated with the quartz watch procedure?
Yes it was. I was surprised to see it so far off but I understand there is no need for atomic clock performance from a soundcard.
 

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I've read a lot of the posts but I may have missed something so I'll ask anyway.

tg is a fantastic piece of software and I enjoy using it.

However, my main microphone is a an old USB voip phone that I have skinned down so the mic is not be obstructed by buttons etc.

It works ok but is already many years old and I'm looking for a new one to take it's place because it will eventually break.

So the questions are
1. please let me know what USB mic you use and where you got it?
2. is it a piezo mic?
3. I have a soldering iron but that's about the extent of my electronics capabilities so has anyone found the need for an amp/filter and are there any workable modules that can be used without fabrication?
4. Has anyone devised a good stand for positional checking?

TIA
 

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Thank you!

Here's the screenshot. S/D was anywhere from -50 to +80.
I think the mic in my earphone is "too good" as it picks up what it shouldn't, so TG software struggles to separate the watch beat from ambient sounds. Also I couldn't calibrate TG using a quartz watch, it just doesn't hear it at all. Otherwise it works - guesses the bph

I guess I'll have to find a more quiet place and try again.

Anyways, I've ordered a cheap contact microphone and wonder if it would help?
I don't have any answers for the variation only to let you know that my watches usually take a while, sometimes 30 seconds or more, to "settle down" from the disruption of changing their orientation to get them and the mic together.
 
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Just to answer my own question and to bring up this thread - this setup works just fine. It doesn't need a preamp and that piezo mic seems to be less prone to ambient noise than a regular iPhone headset.

View attachment 10501418

1. Piezo Clip On Microphone Pickup for Acoustic Guitar (~$4)
2. Mono 1/4" female to 1/8" male adapter (~$1)
3. 3.5mm Male TRRS to 2 Female TRS Audio Connector TRRS Y Splitter Cable Adapter (~$2)
4. Vintage MacBook Pro (already owned).

The vital part is that TRRS adapter as you can't just plug your mono mic (TS) into the headphones jack, it won't work.

Also there's a neat little software called LineIn (free) that allows you to hear what TG hears, just plug your headphones into the second TRRS adapter jack.
Thanks for the detail scoff.
The software is great but the pickup is a problem for me and this illustration is what I needed to identify a working part.

I also changed parts 2 and 3 to one of these because I wanted to go to USB.
Product Technology Electronic device Fashion accessory Cable
 

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First of all I want to congratulate you on this brilliant software, it is so simple, and easy to use.

I would like to know what kind of calibration is this in the upper right corner?
Also, you said something about samplerate, would it be better to use 192khz instead of 44.1khz?
I think post #169 should be able to help you here. (June 3 2016)
 

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Hi chaps,
I'm trying to get TG working but I just find one problem after other, and don't really know where to head now.

When I had Windows, I managed to get inconsistent signal on TG. I tried to regulate my watch, using a piezo mic, but the signal was so inconsistent that it was impossible.
I tried some external USB sondcard, but didn't work.
I think didn't work, because the signal from the piezo mic, is pretty small, and needs amplification. And the sound card I used, didn't amplified.

Now I got Linux, is worst. I don't even get a weak signal, now TG is completely dead.
When I connect a normal mic on my Laptop, (and don't use TG) ... I get a normal signal on Pulseaudio and Audacity. However, normal mic on TG, not signal at all, completely dead. Because I am new in Linux, I don't know if I could increase the mic's gain. If this is not possible, I don't want to waste more time with this, and try something else.

If I can not increase the mic gain on my Linux, then I was thinking to try one of these: USB guitar interface. The problem is it doesn't seem to work on Linux (only on Windows, or Mc)... so a new problem o|.

If the USB interface does not work,... well ... the only thing I can think of is to use a proper mic preamp. This must work. But must be some DIY job to connect to the PC, (and, I don't know about electronics) .
I just have one mechanical watch, and under normal circumstances we only need to regulate a watch once. So to buy a preamp; and the DIY just to one off, ... don't know if its worth it.
The software, including calibration, has always worked very well for me on Windoze.
However, I have had a Dickens trying to get a mic to work.
I've started up a thread on mic only and the suggestions have been pre amps etc. I didn't want to go to that complexity yet.
However, on a windows notebook the inbuilt mic worked very well.
I have also found that web cam mics are also pretty good at filtering noise and when I plugged one in to the USB on my desktop I got a good stable scan.

I have found that any extraneous noise really hurts the signal. I know it's dumb but I was showing my brother how tg worked and we were talking softly in the background and that totally wrecked the signal.
For those that are ready to write "Well what did you expect!" the answer is I didn't think about it until I had a problem. Doh!

HTH
 

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I'm thinking of porting this to Arduino to create an open source design for the hardware. It would be similar to the Weishi Timegrapher. Does anyone want to join in on development?
I have recently bought an Arduino Uno but I'm a complete noob.
Willing to do things that are within my capability but I'm expecting that this is going to involve reading an analog signal so therefore there has to be an external mic and probably amp.
Would it not be more productive to just produce a great mic/preamp and use the standard tg?
At least I'd suggest an external mic would be the starting point and when that works then port to Arduino?
 

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Probably wouldn't work, since then you're using an uncalibrated DAC to play the file, so you'd have no idea if your resulting audio actually ends up faster or slower than it should be.

If you ran it through the same sound card that you're recording from... chances are it's using the same oscillator time reference for its DAC (for playback) and ADC (for recording), so there's no way actually tell if your sound card is running fast or slow if you do it that way.

Nevermind that whatever you recorded the sample audio file had to have a properly calibrated ADC to begin with...
I have tg on two computers, desktop and laptop.

Desktop calibration is -8.2 sec.

Laptop is +2 sec.

This I believe supports IandK completely.
 
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Thanks for 0.50 contrate_wheel.

Just keeps getting better.
 

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Now is more clear, thank you. I have to think loud, please correct me if I'm wrong:
In normal usage of 24h, mechanical watch will change many positions and variations of them (positions). So, it means that sum of slow and fast rates during the day will give some effort to final 24h result, in practice.
Quartz watch does not have that problem. Maybe some temperature, humidity and battery level will have gain/impact on final 24 h result. That result would be better than on average mechanical watch. That makes a Quarty watch good enough for time reference.

Using GPS is good idea, but it needs a lot of tweaks and job. Final effort is not so big, so yes, it is overkill... However, that brings me to some new idea.. I have some broken ARM tablets at home, working but wiht bad displays (kids ...) . So, if I think about it, it has:
Audio input
GPS (not sure, I think one have it)
Enough CPU power

So, getting some Linux distro on it would be perfect playground. If it has GPS, then it is feasible to to use pulses from it for time reference...
I will post results if successful.
Thanx, cheers!
Hi djolemag

I've been following this thread for a while but I still may have missed something so please excuse.

However, my question is What are you trying to solve with a super accurate time source?
It would appear to me that the calibration system works well and is not broken.

My electronics skills are far less than yours and by all means go for it with this project but, if you have the capability, it would seem that a neat cheap preamp would be far more useful to the majority of users.
 

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Hi,
idea is to have sort of standardized approach to sound pickup, that is why I ask about piezo mic and preamp. I tested TG with headphones and it works nice, however it must be quiet room in order to work efficiently. Therefore, my choice is piezo guitar pickup, will test it when I get back from vacation.
About accurate time source: as I explained in previous post, I was confused about accuracy of quartz watch, now is everything clear.
But, I like to have things straight... If I can use GPS module for free (like in tablet), why not to try?
Main reason, to be honest : I have only one quartz watch and lot of mechanical watches :)
Sounds like quite a challenge so will be interesting to see your solution.

Regarding piezo pickups etc, this thread has a bit of discussion that you might find of use.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/what-microphone-use-tg-open-source-timing-software-3606906.html

I think the summary was if one is using a piezo then a pre amp looks necessary.

Always interested to find better ways to use this great software.
 

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Hi All
Saw this on Affordable Watches and thought it may work as a reliable input device for Timegrapher.

I won't receive it for a while so can't comment on the suitability



Frederique Constant FC-ANALYTICS Clip
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273007677197?ul_noapp=true
 

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Hi contrate_wheel

I have now received the Frederick Constant Analitics Clip and here is a very short review. (If anyone wants more information please PM me and I'll try and respond with a post here.)

Firstly the app
The app is called SwissConnect Analytics and it's available from the Play Store.
Before one can use the app one needs to create an account and authenticate the FC clip number.
All the data is stored on the Cloud and the phone must be connected to the Cloud to store your additions.
It is a very basic app that is slow to operate but, with the clip it does work.
It has stuff that I'm not interested in like
Purchase Price
Proof of Purchase
Last Service etc
However, others might think that is good.
The app design IMHO is cluncky.
In particular the menu is minimalistic. There is also a (reasonable) requirement to SAVE the readings BUT the Save button is out of the window and I have a 6" screen.
It took me a few goes to figure where my readings went.

The app has a list of manufacturers and models but I would have thought that as they are measuring movements they would have an inbuilt list of calibres with the associated vph and lift angles etc. That is not the case but these can be modified by the user.

How does it work?
On my phone it seems to work fine.
There is a 30 second default measurement time and the app does its thing and it shows a trace of the variation in timekeeping in spd.
Once complete it allows the user to add a description and this is where one needs to add the position of the measurement.
I was expecting that there would be defaults for things like Face Up, Face Down, 3 up, 3 down etc but no! What novice designed the app!!

As mentioned above, the phone needs to be connected to the web to save readings and any new watches added.
Is it a replacement for tg software?
Not in my opinion.
However, If you need to check some watches that maybe you are thinking of purchasing then this will likely be a simple and compact option.
With a bit of clip repositioning it worked on three mechanicals that I tried. (It does not work on quartz)

Other things to note.
I tried using the FC clip on my computer but with no success.
It may be that my Flintstone computer doesn't talk to the clip but the computer and tg work fine with a straight USB web cam mic.

HTH

Hi,

that object has been mentioned a few times in other sections of the forums. I made a post in this thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/frederique-constant-watch-accuracy-device-3798778.html and there are these other threads
https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/frederiqueconstant-analytics-4560289.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/nifty-rate-checker-3791162.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/some-isochronism-testing-4063514.html
Unfortunately nobody really reviewed neither the device nor the associated app.

Note of excuses: I promised to write a post about the internals of TG already more than once, but still I didn't. As it has been observed (Definition of beat error) I am rather slow, and I have too many hobbies. But I didn't forget my promise (yet)...
 
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