WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Kudos to you contrate_wheel !!!

Both versions are running perfectly (Win10) I've just finished "playing" with your software for a while with simple and inexpensive hobbyist equipment (small amplifier ~10€ + battery ~75ct + guitar pick-up-clip ~2€ + some cables from my junk box + some soldering)

The algorythm for filtering noise and calculating timesignal IMHO seems to be crazy good.
I recently adjusted one of my watches using biburo and today checked it using your new programm. My conclusion: 100% plug-and-play :) 100% working :) 100% fun :)

I try to add some pictures (upload-newbie ... sorry if it fails)

Wire Electronics Technology Electronic device Gadget

Text Line Font Technology Pattern
3H
Text Line Font Technology Oscilloscope
6H
Text Line Font Technology Diagram
9H
Text Line Font Technology Design
12H
Text Font Line Design Technology
CH
Text Font Line Technology Oscilloscope
FH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I guess the amplitude is given.
Testing another watch (that I cleaned about 1 1/2 year ago and just wound up) a difference is visible (marked in screenshot). In my opinion it'll give about 300° to the one side and about 280° to the other.
Is my speculation right that the hairspring is not exactly in the middle of the pins?

Text Line Font Technology Oscilloscope
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
I have three questions:
1 - Did you try the program on your setup?
2 - Was it hard to read the amplitude from the graph (if yes, screenshot or even better sound sample would be appreciated)?
3 - Why do you feel that the number is better than the picture?
@1 setup as shown in first picture
@2 let me say ... depending ... I tried to add some soundfiles to show you why, but have not been able to upload them o|
@3 to have an unreliable number is not as helpful as a reliable graph. I prefer to decide by myself if the amplitude can be read from the raw-data. An additional value in form of a number would be fine.

This screenshot is a combination showing both, your timegrapher and biburo.

Text Font Line Technology Parallel


The signal from this watch is quite good, even if the caseback is still closed. Reason might be, that the movement is fit directly into the case without a casing-ring made of plastic.

A Promaster with closed caseback gives a weak signal and therefore I would not trust an average amplitude value. To get an even better signal I usually open the caseback and contact the pick-up-clip directly to the movement, which will give a stronger signal, therefore allow to reduce amplification and consequently reduce the noiselevel.

Text Line Font Technology Electronic device


Maybe I'll think about servicing this watch some day (at least adjust the repére).

Text Line Font Technology Pattern


(some soundfiles for the "addicted" will follow if you can give a "how-to-upload" ;-) )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
The idea of using a clip-on guitar pickup suggested by Klaus in this thread sounds very very good to me. Unfortunately I didn't have time to experiment with that, but I most probably will. There is even the possibility that it might work without the amplifier: Klaus, did you try?
Well, I did try but failed getting a poor signal. The reason might be that the piezo is sensitive predominantly for solid-borne sound which is very low.

If anybody else is going to try the pickup the following might be usefull. I removed the foam rubber for better contact and covered the hole with an adhesive tape to reduce sound-pressure of ambient noise. No big effect for the tape, just as a matter of conscience.

Dynamic microphones didn't satisfy my needs completely but the sound processing of timegrapher is such good that the built-in microphone of a laptop will be enough for a rough shot.

...but I can't get the application to run at all. I'm using Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and when I extract the files from the .ZIP, install the font, and attempt to run the program, nothing happens. I don't see any errors in the Windows error logs. I get a second or two of Windows "spinning wheel" but the program never launches. Could I be doing something wrong?
I'm experiencing as well the issue with version 0.2.0 and 0.2.2 not starting anymore and "the spinning wheel" causing the explorer to stick. Maybe caused by some windows 10 or antivirus updates? The old version 1.0.0 (nov 5th) is still running perfectly.Restore Auto-Saved Content
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
May I ask you to download version 0.2.3 (the very latest one), then try again, and tell me the result.
Windows 10 home + tg 0.2.3: spinning wheel, no entry in taskmanager but "tg.exe" in use, no message
Windows 10 home + tg 0.2.0: spinning wheel, no entry in taskmanager but "tg.exe" in use, no message (has been running perfectly a few days ago)
Windows 10 home + tg 0.1.0: running without problems (and very smooth on i7 laptop)
(just realizing that I do not have 0.2.2)

Win XP home SP3 + tg all versions: running without problems (just a bit overstressed :-D from USB-stick on netbook with Intel Atom b-))

Windows 7 64bit + tg all versions: running without problems (Pentium 4 dualcore)

Seems that the bug is on my Win10 (maybe after KB3116908, Java update, Flash update ...). 12-13-2015 --> some conflict with Avast Free Antivirus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
@Wizard7 cool idea making video-screencaptures. |>

In my opinion there is a bit to much noise in your recording when you are using the amp (I made the same experience several times).
TG is solving this issue with it's crazy good filtering algorythm. But in your first video one can see as well the noise in the graph.
Biburo is not able to detect if it's a signal or if it's noise and has to surrender.

Here some points how I get rid of the noise, depending where it's based:
1. power supply: I first tryed a 5V wall power supply which produced a lot of 50Hz noise. So I switched over to a 9V battery (very effective)
2. grounded shield: as shown in the first picture of the thread, about 15 centimetre length taken from an old coax-cable around the pickup-cable and as an extension the red cable which I can easily grab or even more comfortable just step on with my foot :-d (very effective and you see the difference immediately grabbing it or let it hang loose)
3. amplification (computer): give it a try to play with the amplification of the internal soundcard. For me +12dB and about 30% volume for soundrecording is comfortable (if the battery is getting weak I switch to higher amplification), drawback: higher values will amp as well the noise (basic)
4. amplification (external amp): same as before, mine has two potentiometers (Conrad 197688
one for amplification the other for load voltage) trimming those two potentiometers is very important for a good signal to noise ratio (basic)

for both amplification methods I use biburo to adjust to a combination of good soundsignal and low noise level. Noise then is just a few millimetres (about 1/3 of the signalgraph see picture in post #19
or even less when testing loud vintage watches)

If you give it a try and at least modify 3 and 4 your biburo should work fine as well and you will be able to compare ratio, amplitude and repere/beat error of different timing programms.
Very happy for any feedback and discussion.

@contrate-wheel again many thanks for the TG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is the greatest Christmas gift for the low-budget hobbyist
:-!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
... but is this big difference between tics and tocs ok? I have zero idea...
Hi Jappa,
did you try to connect the clip to the crown or at least the mic to the caseback if you got a plexi?
Sometimes - depending on the watchcase - I'm experiencing as well some kind of echo which confuses TG as well as biburo or WOS.
In case of a very quiet watch I connect directly to a save place e.g. crown wheel or a stable bridge.

Just clip it to the right place and timegrapher will do its magic b-)b-)b-)b-)b-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
kling kling kling
... is the sound of the hairspring which seems to be dirty (minimal amount of oil) and probably sticking short time at the pins of the regulator. Adhesion ends when the balance travelled a few degrees after zero crossing, the hairspring abruptly unsticks and this will cause an extra (bad) vibration. You can even see this under the loupe.
You should visit you watchmaker to clean the hairspring as a gesture of goodwill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Re: Ace Timer No. 1000 Timegrapher comparison #2

Here are more details of a side-by-side comparison ...
Just WOW |> very impressive |>

The Ace Timer had its test period set to the default 12 seconds
I feel more comfortable with 60 seconds or more because it can help detecting issues on the gears or at least exclude possible causes. (Not to mention the additional graphs of the sound with a lot of information)

The results of both ACE and TG I would call identical within standard deviation ;-) what we all are trying to measure and interpret is within a time slot of milliseconds to extrapolate to a deviation per day (don't do that on stock market :) ). As far as I know 0.1ms difference between tick and tock gives a difference of about 5 degrees in amplitude on a 28.800 movement or 3 degrees at 21.600 :think:

I'm really curious about reading more of such excellent reports.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Snakepottery what it says is correct. One can just see the numbers. However, a better understanding of each screen will contribute to better enjoy every feature of the program. As I already understood some things. I is the scale in degrees that allows corresponds to the location of escape steps very useful. I have only one question: Does the point 360 deg. corresponds to the rest position the balance wheel?
your question and Snakepottery post #123

Just take the following as an effort from an dilettante but very tenacious amateur and please correct.

If I interpret the two upper graphs the right way the 360 is not the rest position of the balance but the "virtual" maximum deflection. The blue line will give the amplitude / real deflection of the balance which is calculated from time between beginning and end of the tick respectively the tock when the roller passes the pallet fork. The shorter the time it takes for the three pulses (ellipse-stone hitting fork of anchor, fork of anchor hitting ellipse stone, fork hitting banking pin) the faster the rotation of balancewheel in rest position and therefore the higher the amplitude.
The milliseconds for calculation is given underneath. In your picture about 11 - 11.25ms. With 21.600 and liftangle 50 it will be calculated to about 241,6 degrees to the tick-side and about 236,2 to the tock-side. Average is 238,9 degrees.
The lower graph shows both the three parts of tick-pulse and the tock-pulse and if there is any noise in between that should'nt be there. Seems to be ok on your watch.
The vertical graph on the right should be ideally one straight line (or two straight lines very tight) without scattering or wiggly line as depicted in your screenshot. I assume either the pallet-stones or the escape-wheel need cleaning and lubrication. Is there still a wiggly-line when fully wound up? Which movement did you test?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
A really great new feature !!!!

Quick feedback:
I did the calibration using a 10 year old Tissot V8 with ETA G10.211 (battery one year old). Maybe 10 or 15 minutes later the calibration was set to +5,1s/d
The calibration-graph did not look so "pretty" as shown in the example, but it seems to have worked properly and corresponds even better to real-life. Using the previous versions I ended up in adjusting some of my watches a bit slower or at a maximum to +/-0s/d to have a better timing. Now I know that it should have been 5,1s/d :)

MANY THANKS AGAIN |>

p.s. How about adding a beatrate of 3600bph e.g. for selecting a quarzmovement with a "pretty graph" in the menu? (no begging, just an idea)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Has anyone tried this software with a piezo yet ? What were the results ?
I suggest at least 10% of the posts here are dealing with piezo-recordings. Just read through the postings and have a look for keywords like: piezo, guitar pickup, pickup clip, pick-up-clip, clip-on guitar pickup, conact microphone.

In short:
YES ;-)
Result: perfect signal (additional preamp recommended)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Hi everyone,
And thank you @Contrate_wheel for this software. I've been using it from day 1, and it has been evolving very well since then !

A QUESTION: My old laptop broke and I had to replace it. Now I don't have two separate jack inputs for mic and earphones but only one, which
doesn't fit my mono mic :( I bought a couple of cheap USB audiocards on eBay but I cannot get the mic to work with them. Any experience with
this issue ?!?! THANKS !
Hi avihai,

I got no experience but I haven't any clue.:) Maybe it will help anyway.
if your laptop is some kind of fruit with specific OS then there are special adaptors available. In case of an OS with a sheet glass opening in the wall you have to explain to the system what's plugged.

br Klaus
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Hi blackarrow,

if you want to verify, that a piezo mic is really insufficient without an amplifier, you can search for a 6,3mm mono to 3,5mm strereo adaptor (in which I had no luck). Mono to stereo adaptor for the reason of definitely not shorting right channel to ground.
If you are familiar with soldering, then just use a 3,5mm stereo jack and solder it to the cable instead of the 6,3mm mono. Or just cut the cable with jack from an old headphone and solder it to the pick up clip.

br Klaus
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top