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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


I spotted a pocket watch at a local auction,and would like an opinion please.
The seller description is brief,*800 silver small seconds,cylinder pocket watch.
4 days remaining,no bids,so thought i would check here on the movement because it`s not like any cylinder movement i`ve seen.
pic 1.JPG really nice engraved case,pin set....................
pic 2.JPG
i have my doubts the small seconds hand is correct,can see the hole beneath......................
pic 3.JPG
Note the twisted gears on the winding..........any info welcomed.
Thanks in advance.
 

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That is not a cylinder escapement from what I vaguely see (pointed tooth escapement?). The experts here can immediately tell. Unfortunately, the watch was running when the pictures were taken and things are not that clear. The 'twisted gear winding' is something special and increasing the value of the watch. It is called 'wolfsteeth' and that ensures a tighter grip of the teeth and less friction.
 

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I have to agree that the watch is not a cylinder escapement which is a good thing. Those gears however are not wolfsteeth. I can't offhand however say I've noticed that style of gear before on a watch like this though the name for that gear style escapes me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the confirmation guys,here a better pic of movement with what looks like a ring above the escape wheel..
pic 4.JPG
@Mirius.i must be the worst at using the correct technical definitions for these parts,but i understand the principal behind the sloping gears,whaterever they are called.
 
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The "wolfs teeth" gears are the the two winding gears where they have a curved tooth instead of a straight cut.

The "wolfs teeth" that you're referring to is what's called "helical" gears.

Edit:

Here's an example. the "wolfs teeth" gears.. which really, should be called "saw tooth".



And helical..

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks 28a,"Helical" it is,that cleared that up...............
i guess my subconscious is having difficulty with this piece,because looking at the style of numeral in the small seconds, tells me this is a pre-1900 style which seems at odds with the style of case,bow,crown etc.........

pic 5.JPG

....could it be a (dare i say it) frankenstien!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Do you have a serial number?
What is the approximate diameter of the movement?
Paul
Only seller pics of inside case back,and described as 48mm,so given this is the case measurement,i think the movement could be about 38mm or there abouts....
pic 6.JPG
pic 7.JPG
 

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Thanks for the confirmation guys,here a better pic of movement with what looks like a ring above the escape wheel..
That looks like a typical Swiss lever that has been counter-balanced and poised. Bascially, they add mass to the pallet side to balance out the mass of the fork on the other side, and to ensure that the center of gravity of the whole thing is over the pivot. At the time, it was thought this would increase positional accuracy. This was the same basic mis-understanding of gravity that was behind the tourbillon. Some watchmakers (Assman, for example) continued to use them in their higher-grade watches into the 20th century, but there wasn't much value to them outside of aesthetics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That looks like a typical Swiss lever that has been counter-balanced and poised. Bascially, they add mass to the pallet side to balance out the mass of the fork on the other side, and to ensure that the center of gravity of the whole thing is over the pivot. At the time, it was thought this would increase positional accuracy. This was the same basic mis-understanding of gravity that was behind the tourbillon. Some watchmakers (Assman, for example) continued to use them in their higher-grade watches into the 20th century, but there wasn't much value to them outside of aesthetics.

Thanks Rob,
That would explain why it`s in two different positions in the pics,it must be stuck to fork somehow.
Looking over the pics again,i found what looks like a name scratched in,but can`t make out what it is.................
pic 8.jpg

A seller trick perhaps?
 

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I am also not sure if the dial is original. The hole for the seconds looks like someone has enlarged it to make the hand move freely, as it could not be centered correctly or was too small from the beginning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Looking less genuine by the minute.............hmmmmm.
 
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