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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been thinking about getting a Speedmaster for a while now, so I don't know much about them. Saw this online ad, wondering if it's all original and rare as it says it is. I am really wondering what kind of movement is it, is it the famous cal 321?















This is the info on the watch:

"Model ST 145.022-69 ST from 1969/70. Rare decimal bezel. Original crown, probably the glass is original."

Thanks
 

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OK

This bezel is the less common telemeter one. The movement is the 861 which was used until the mid 90's and replaced by the rhodium 1861. This was the movement used after the 321. The caseback is the original speedmaster one. I would be interested if this was original... I have a 68 321 that had the same caseback so it is possible. The dial from the pics appears to be the stepped dial which is more valuable than the current model. The hands look to be replacements. The bracelet appears to be a replacement 1171. The movement appears to be in good nick.

Depends what you are looking for. If you want a all original 60's Speedy it is not for you. If you want a nice Speedy it is OK if the price is right. You mentioned a 321. If you really want the more desirable Speedy then get a 321. I personally don't see the point of getting a vintage Speedy unless it is a 321, a birth year watch or a transitional Speedy with the applied logo and the 861.
 

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Totally agrre. If you want a 321, buy a 321. That's what I did. The 321 cost morebut it's better to spend 4000 on a watch you want, than 2000 on one you don't.

Some people, like me, is very carfull about reference number, year, bezel and hands but you don't have to be that geeky. It sounds like the most important thing for you is to get the 321. Don't forget that a service on a 321 can cost a lot. That's the (only?) drawback.
 

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I think Ferrari said it well. Technically, it's a decimeter bezel, but it is, of course, less common than the good ol' tachy. That being said, it's not that tough to find a decimeter bezel, so I wouldn't pay much extra, based on that.

As Ferrari noted, the hands are replacements, and the bracelet is a newer ref.1171.

Hope that helps a bit.

eric
 

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...The caseback is the original speedmaster one. I would be interested if this was original... I have a 68 321 that had the same caseback so it is possible. ...
Yes, this is indeed the correct case back for 1969. They obviously wouldn't have gone to the new "First Watch Worn On The Moon" case back until after July 1969.
I have also seen the 1969 vintage Speedys command a slightly higher price just for the fact that was the year of Apollo 11.
 

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Don't forget that a service on a 321 can cost a lot.
This is not true. I spent the same amount getting service on my 105.012 66 (321) as my 145.022 69 (861). That watch is a nice premoon 861. The dial is certainly original as you cannot get the stepped dial anymore. The lighting used for those shots is hiding the patina on the hour markers and perhaps on the hands. The original hands on my watch are whiter than the hour markers. Those may be the original hands. Here are two shots, one with a flash that washes out the patina (the hands look like replacements), the other with reflected, softer lighting that highlights the patina.
white hands.jpg
no flash hands.jpg
 
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I completely agree that the dial is very likely original, Richard. The dial markings are all consistent to that era, including the Speedmaster text. You may be right about the hands. I was not considering the patina, as it's too difficult to discern in the photo, but it looked like the hour and minute hands had the stubby tips we sometimes see on incorrect replacement hands. Looking more closely, that impression may just be due to the low quality of the image.

As always, better photos are always...better.

eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow, thanks for all the good advice!

The price on this one is around 2500 USD, not a lot but getting a Speedy for me is all about the legendary cal. 321, I think.

I love the look of the Speedmaster and I would love to have one to keep at home and just wear it on special occasions. It sounds weird, doesn't it?

In my view, the cal. 321 will always be very very desirable watch and the price will only go up, so sooner I find a decent piece the better. Maybe I am wrong.
 
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