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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I had a deal go sour, I won my paypal dispute but the dude was broke. So even though I have the feel good victory, I dont have my hard earned cash. I understand you can also dispute the charges on your credit card. Anyone done this, I understand you credit card will get the $$ back from paypal but then won't they be pissed?

Anyone done this with success?
 

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Laws on such are national and vary widely. You need to check with your card issuer as you are in Canada and US laws are different. Most have a time limit - 60 days is typical in the US - before you are out of luck.

Good luck.
 

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I understand you credit card will get the $$ back from paypal but then won't they be pissed?
They couldn't help you get your money back so you really have no choice. Like you mentioned, its your hard earned money and you have every right to get it back if you can. Good luck and hope you get your money back soon |>
 

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Recently I had a deal go sour, I won my paypal dispute but the dude was broke. So even though I have the feel good victory, I dont have my hard earned cash. I understand you can also dispute the charges on your credit card. Anyone done this, I understand you credit card will get the $$ back from paypal but then won't they be pissed?

Anyone done this with success?
In the USA you could request a refund from your credit card company. I've done that a couple of times with success. The laws governing disputed charges in your country may differ from mine, so you should local laws.
 

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I know this is not on topic, but sounds like we have the informed individuals on this thread.

It was my understanding that as a buyer, if you funded your purchase w/a CC via Paypal, there was no buyer protection (from Paypal). Is this true?
 

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I found Paypal to be worthless as far as dispute resolution. They did everything they could to send obscure emails with deadlines in order to try and just make me go away. I disputed the charge on my credit card and got the money back. I live in the US though.

I won't use them anymore for anything expensive.
 

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Paypal's US User Agreement says that "PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price" if it finds in your favor. Nothing makes Paypal's obligation to issue a refund contingent upon the seller having funds available. That's the whole point of the buyer protection program -- to protect you from unscrupulous sellers who may run off with the money. If Paypal is saying otherwise, refer them to their user agreement. Here is a link to the agreement, with the relevant section excerpted:

https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtComp_full&locale.x=en_US

"How much coverage do I get with PayPal Buyer Protection?

If you see the PayPal Buyer Protection message "Pay with PayPal and full purchase price is covered", and if PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs - with no cap on coverage. If the buyer protection message includes a cap on coverage, and if PayPal finds in your favor, then PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs, up to the coverage cap specified in the buyer protection message. The amount of coverage varies based on the eBay website where the purchase is made.

PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not as Described item to the seller or other party PayPal specifies. If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller even if you did not receive the goods."

I know this is not on topic, but sounds like we have the informed individuals on this thread.

It was my understanding that as a buyer, if you funded your purchase w/a CC via Paypal, there was no buyer protection (from Paypal). Is this true?
Provided you meet all of the other eligibility requirements, you are still covered by the buyer protection program even if you pay with credit card. In fact, when you click the button to change the payment source from your bank account to your credit card, there is a note explicitly saying so.
 

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You'll note that all your referenced policies concern eBay purchases, and not all of them, either. Only ones which have the referenced message when you buy.

So, it's likely that none of this is applicable. The OP did not state whether this is an eBay purchase or not, but it seems like it is not. Therefore this section of the policy doesn't apply.

-s-
Yes, absolutely, this policy only applies to qualifying EBay purchases which I assumed is what we were talking about, but I now see may not be the case:

"13.3 PayPal Buyer Protection

What are the eligibility requirements for PayPal Buyer Protection?

You must meet all of these requirements:
    • Use PayPal to purchase an eligible item on eBay.
    • Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments - like a deposit followed by a final payment - are not eligible.
    • Send the payment to the seller through:
      • The eBay "Pay Now" button, or
      • the eBay invoice,
    • Open a Dispute within 45 days of the date you sent the payment - then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution.
    • Keep your PayPal account in good standing."

In any event, PayPal clearly envisions a situation where you might file a claim with your credit card after filing a dispute with PayPal, so I wouldn't be too concerned about PayPal being "pissed." I'm sure this happens every day.

"13.9 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks

Credit card chargeback rights, if they apply, are broader than PayPal's protection programs. Chargeback rights may be filed more than 45 days after the payment, may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD, and may cover intangible items.

You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your chargeback rights.
If PayPal does not make a final decision on your Claim until after your credit card issuer's deadline for filing a chargeback, and because of our delay you recover less than the full amount you would have been entitled to recover from the credit card issuer, we will reimburse you for the remainder of your loss (minus any amount you have already recovered from the seller).

Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the seller's return policy as stated on their auction or website.

13.10 No Double Recovery. You may not file a Dispute/Claim, or receive a recovery, for a purchase under PayPal's protection for buyers if you have already received a recovery for that purchase directly from eBay or the seller."
 

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Been there. Filed with AMEX, money back in hand. The only true way to protect yourself is CC. Your seller was not broke, he just emptied the account so you could not get the cash. File my friend and get what is rightfully yours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks everyone.

One of the reason I've always backed up with a CC.

Sadly its been too long. Between waiting for the item, then waiting for the paypal dispute my 60 days is up with the CC. More wondering should this ever happen again, just wanted to make sure paypal wouldn't view it as negative $$ in my account next time I tried to use the account if I reversed CC charges, I mean its them who would loose the $$. Not that I would feel bad, they didnt really support me.

PS I documented this deal gone bad in the deals section for those who were wondering.
 

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this has got me wondering if my bank would back me up. i use a credit/debit card through my bank. hmm... does anybody know if i would be protected or should i use a dedicated cc for internet purchases?
 

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this has got me wondering if my bank would back me up. i use a credit/debit card through my bank. hmm... does anybody know if i would be protected or should i use a dedicated cc for internet purchases?
Most debit/credit cards don't have near the protection that a typical credit card has.
 

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Paypal's US User Agreement says that "PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price" if it finds in your favor. Nothing makes Paypal's obligation to issue a refund contingent upon the seller having funds available. That's the whole point of the buyer protection program -- to protect you from unscrupulous sellers who may run off with the money. If Paypal is saying otherwise, refer them to their user agreement. Here is a link to the agreement, with the relevant section excerpted:

https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtComp_full&locale.x=en_US

"How much coverage do I get with PayPal Buyer Protection?

If you see the PayPal Buyer Protection message "Pay with PayPal and full purchase price is covered", and if PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs - with no cap on coverage. If the buyer protection message includes a cap on coverage, and if PayPal finds in your favor, then PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs, up to the coverage cap specified in the buyer protection message. The amount of coverage varies based on the eBay website where the purchase is made.

PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not as Described item to the seller or other party PayPal specifies. If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller even if you did not receive the goods."

Provided you meet all of the other eligibility requirements, you are still covered by the buyer protection program even if you pay with credit card. In fact, when you click the button to change the payment source from your bank account to your credit card, there is a note explicitly saying so.
That is the whole point of using PayPal I thought, for the protection.
You could also take the advice of the guys above and file a claim with your CC company.
 

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Somehow it seems that whether youre the buyer OR the seller, paypal screws you. For some reason, only the scammers ever seem to come out on top. Paypal is a piece of crap when it comes to protecting you. NEVER pay with anything but a credit card if you want to be protected.

I bought a laptop once and never got it. I just bypassed paypal and went straight to my CC and got the money back. It didnt take more than 5 minutes. My dad also recently got screwed. Paypal said something along the lines of "we find in your favor but the seller has no money so too bad..." He got the money back from his credit card.
 

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Thanks everyone.

One of the reason I've always backed up with a CC.

Sadly its been too long. Between waiting for the item, then waiting for the paypal dispute my 60 days is up with the CC. More wondering should this ever happen again, just wanted to make sure paypal wouldn't view it as negative $$ in my account next time I tried to use the account if I reversed CC charges, I mean its them who would loose the $$. Not that I would feel bad, they didn't really support me.

PS I documented this deal gone bad in the deals section for those who were wondering.
I believe the CC company eats the charges (not paypal) if you have a succesful claim with the CC company. The CC company has your back if you act in reasonable time), NOT paypal.
 
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