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I had a bad deal with Peter Myrtle, aka PMyrtle. He often posts watches for sale or buys watches on the other watch site. To clarify -

-- This is my experience only. I am not saying you will definitely also have a bad experience.
-- Others may have had good experiences. I am not trying to discount those.
-- I simply want to share my interaction, and help fellow watch enthusiasts to be careful.
-- I will summarize the interaction first, then provide select emails as proof.
-- I have all emails exchanged with Mr. Myrtle, as well as his reply to my post on another deal-watch site. This post was deleted by the moderator of that site. Email me privately if you're interested.

Events:

Mr. Myrtle contacted me to buy my RGM watch. I wanted USPS Money Order, but he insisted on a wire transfer. In order to be accomodating, I agreed. He said he would wire on Monday, 3/2/09.

I told him I would likely ship the watch on Tuesday, "noon-ish" when his funds definitively clear. He also inquired about accuracy of the watch. I told him I would test the watch and let him know shortly. I started watch timing at 10am 3/1/09 (Sunday)

Sunday was a busy day, so I didn't email him back w/ prelim timing results. No excuse, I forgot. I sent him info for the wire transfer. He didn't remind me about timing results, nor did he inquire about it further.

Monday, 3/2/09, he wires the funds to me. My bank, Bank of America, lists funds as pending. He asks me to send the watch Monday night "since I have time" and send all tracking numbers. I tell him I will send Tuesday via USPS priority mail after his funds clear. (that's what I told him Sunday, even before he wired the funds). I also told him I would also provide all tracking numbers. He was unhappy with USPS, saying their tracking numbers are useless, and requests Fedex shipping. I never use fedex. It's well known that US postal service is safer than UPS or Fedex. Many people have lost watches shipping through these other carriers.

Somehow, inexplicably, his tone changed. he states that I promised to ship the watch Monday (i promised no such thing), and also since i didn't tell him timing results, he wants an immediate refund. He asked for express mail. (i never promised this)

I replied that I'd be happy to send a refund, but his wire has not cleared yet. My bank told me to wait until his wire clears. (I have documentation from my bank's on-line chat service that, as of 9pm Monday, his funds were still pending, and I sent him this documentation as well - this is included below).

Lots of angry and threatening emails. In the end, I refunded him his money in full, I'm out $37 in wire fees. The $37 I can handle, that's the cost of the lesson. It's the principle of the matter, and the frustration was too much. I've been buying and sellign watches as a hobby for enjoyment since 2003. I can supply references from my own past deals.

I don't know anyone that would:

-- demand shipment before payment clears
-- demand refund before payment clears
-- demand that someone ship same day. I think that anyone with a watch hobby must be gainfully employed, and likely busy. I expect timely shipment, but not immediate shipment, esp before funds clear. Actually, one time, I took delivery of a watch after 3 days wait for buyer to ship because he was too busy, and waited 3 months for box and papers (he works overseas).
-- cancel a deal because he wasn't given timing results. why not just email me and remind me to tell him what the result was?
-- x's placed for privacy below:

I will detail below the exchange:

1) Initial exchange -

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Peter Myrtle <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Peter Myrtle <[email protected]>
Subject: RGM 151P
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:46 AM

Dude,

What is the dial color and is it matt or gloss. I am off to bed, but I will likely take the piece, once I know the dial color. Also, when did you buy the watch and did you buy it from the Watchseller or directly from RGM?

Many thanks & we can chat in the morning ~ Pete

TZ handle: PMyrtle


----- Original Message -----
From: John xxx
To: Peter Myrtle
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: RGM 151P

Hi Peter,

The dial color is matte black. I am not the original owner of the watch. The receipt for the watch was sent with it when I bought the watch. I think it's still in the box. I've included a list my references from prior timezone deals. I enjoyed watches for a while, but my interest in them has diminished. i find myself just wearing my GMT 2 and omega deville, nothing else. The RGM is a great watch. Thanks!

John xxx


--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Peter Myrtle <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Peter Myrtle <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: RGM 151P
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 1:09 AM

Classic ~ I don't know one of your references which is very odd for me, since I am a very heavy buyer and seller ~ keeps me occupied :) Anyway, I go more on the number of posts one makes and you have more than enough.

If you could give me all your wiring information, I will have the money in your account first thing on Monday ~ I will give you my shipping info, but it is basically my office, which is in the contact section of www.baig.com (Mandeville, US address, not Singapore or China :)) No telling when I would get the piece if you sent it outside the US :)

Take care and I await your wiring details and I am now for sure off to bed :)

Pete

Ps. Your price is fine, but a few pics of the case would be great ~ I don't use any of RGM bracelets, so I am not that bothered about the bracelet condition ~ as soon as I get it, it will go on a strap. This was very good timing, since I was just about to send Richard (at RGM) an email to send me this exact watch. I have the blue dial 150PB, so the matt black dial on the 151P will make a good contrast. I am a big fan of Roland's work (I also have the 250P), but he is sadly, in this economy, going to take a major hit on his new 801 movement and his new diver.


From: "John xxx" View contact details
To: "Peter Myrtle" <[email protected]>
Hi Peter,

I will take some pics in the AM of the case, bracelet boxes and papers. I would prefer USPS money order please if that's ok w/ you. I'll email tomorrow. take care,

John xxx

2) I agree to time the watch for accuracy, he agrees to buy the watch

Of interest, he offers to send a personal check, and states I can send the watch after the check clears. Then, why would he demand I ship the watch or refund the money before his wire clears?

From: "John Sun" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: "Peter Myrtle" <[email protected]>
I've started the timing of the watch and will update you after 6-8 hours for an estimate. My address is:

xxx
xxx (removed for privacy purposes)

Thanks!

John xxx


--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Peter Myrtle <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Peter Myrtle <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: RGM 151P
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 10:21 AM
Is a bank draft/money order the same as a USPS money order
for you? I only normally do wire transfers, so I will need
you to hold my hand on this. Also, I assume that I send it
registered mail, right? Worst case I will just Federal
Express a personal check and by all means you do not need to
send out the watch until the check has cleared.

Give me your address and also, let me know about the bank
stuff above ~ just out of curiosity, why would a bank wire
transfer not work for you? If I send the wire first thing
tomorrow morning, you will have cleared funds by midday.

Later ~ Pete

Ps. I will be in and out all day, so I will be checking my
email on an infrequent basis ~ you can go ahead and mark the
item sold, if you so chose.

3) He wants to fedex a check. We finally agree on wire. I state I will mail the package tuesday.

------Original Message------
From: Peter Myrtle <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, Mar 1, 6:14 PM -0600
Subject: Re: RGM 151P

I am just going to Fed Ex you a check tomorrow, if that is ok ~ I need a phone number and will you be at this address on Tuesday morning to sign for the Federal Express package? ~ if not, give me you work address and I will send the check there. Can I use this # xxx-xxx-xxxx for Fed Ex? I suppose that they may not take the shipment, with an East Coast number for a West Coast shipment.

LMK & thanks for the timing ~ Pete

----- Original Message -----
From: John xxx
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: RGM 151P


i thk the phone# would be ok but i'm not usually in my office. the address is

[removed for privacy]

how do we do the wire? that may be easier as you have mentioned.

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Myrtle
To: John xxx
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: RGM 151P


I am sure that you know [removed for privacy] ~ this is a copy of the wire transfer that I sent him last week for a Sinn ~ I have taken out the amounts and his account number. He had the money in his account by 10.00 am PST. If you get me this information, I will send the wire first thing tomorrow and you can ship out the watch tomorrow night.

This is by far the easiest for us both ~ the outgoing wire costs me $15 and you should pay no more than $10 for the incoming wire.

LMK ~ thanks ~ Pete


From: "John xxx" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: [email protected]
ok. i'm out and about now but will lookat attachment when i get home. so i just need to give u a routing #? will likely mail out tuesday noon-ish. thx

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

4) He wires the money Monday, and then things start to change

From: Peter Myrtle [mailto:p[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:51 AM
To: xxx, xxx (BANK); xxx, xxx (BANK)
Subject: Personal Wire Transfer

Dear Connie &/or Aimee,

I do hope that you both had a pleasant & happy week-end. Connie, I also hope that you have "finally" managed to get fully rested after the wedding?

I would be most grateful if one of you could kindly confirm enactment of the attached wire transfer and detail all costs associated therein.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience ~ many thanks.

Pete

----- Original Message -----
From: xxx, xxx (BANK)
To: Peter Myrtle ; xxx, xxx (BANK)
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: Personal Wire Transfer

Good afternoon!
Your wire has been sent as requested i/a/o $1,045 and your account will be debited for the $15 wire fee. Have a great week!

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Peter Myrtle <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Peter Myrtle <[email protected]>
Subject: Fw: Personal Wire Transfer
To: "John xxx" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 3:43 PM

John,

The funds will now be in your account. My address is in our web site [removed for privacy], but for ease, I can detail as follows:

[removed for privacy]

Please let me know how you are shipping the watch, the carrier that you are using and a tracking number.

Thanks ~ Pete


From: "John xxx" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: "Peter Myrtle" <[email protected]>
Hi Peter. Thanks for the email. Just checked, transaction is listed as pending. should clear by end of today. i will send via US postal service. i will forward all tracking #'s to you as
soon as I mail it, which should be tomorrow. Thanks!

John xxx

5) Things get strange:

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Myrtle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Personal Wire Transfer

Don't bother sending me any tracking # for the US Postal Service ~ the tracking does not work ~ how will you be shipping the piece? ~ Express Overnight? I thought that we had agreed that you would ship the watch today to arrive here tomorrow?

I am not too happy about this ~ the wire is cleared funds ~ under Federal Law it can only post to your account at evening clearance.

Since you are in California and you have the time, perhaps you would be kind enough to pop down to Federal Express and have the watch here in the morning?

I am not sure that I want to go through with the deal on the basis "i will forward all tracking #'s to you as
soon as I mail it, which should be tomorrow"

Lets get this cleared up tonight ~ thanks ~ Pete



From: "Peter Myrtle" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: [email protected]
John,

I have just realized that you never got back to me about the watch's running rate ~ you mentioned that you were testing the watch and would give me the results accordingly. This has never happened?

Hence, if you want to discuss this matter further, please call me on my cell [removed for privacy], otherwise I must insist that you instruct your bank to return the wired funds, without delay, to the source bank and the source account.

Thanks ~ Pete

6) Further issues when I tell him funds are not cleared, but I will refund money when it does. At no point do I refuse a refund. I don't even ask him to reimburse me for wire fees when he demands a refund without substantial cause.

----- Original Message -----
From: John xxx
To: Peter Myrtle
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Personal Wire Transfer

Dear Pete -

My bank informed me that it takes 3-5 business days for the wire to clear. They advised me to wait for funds from you to clear and be fully deposited. If and when the money is definitively deposited into my bank and is confirmed, I will mail you a money order for the amount in question.

John xxx

From: "Peter Myrtle" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: [email protected]
That is simply not true, I am afraid John ~ this is a domestic wire from a Bank member of the Federal Reserve system. As such the funds are available. If your Bank chooses to handle such matters not according to the Federal Reserve system, then that is not my problem.

The wire that I sent to xxx last week, cleared immediately ~ please contact Larry directly about this.

As you know he is one of the more prominent watch participants of Time Zone.

If what your Bank is saying is true, then I could cancel the wire by contacting my Bank in the morning ~ as far as my Bank are concerned, the money has been paid to Bank of America. Obviously, we are all well aware of the problems facing the Bank of America.

In addition, if what you say is true, then simply instruct your Bank to return the funds to my Bank and my Account. What possibly could be wrong about that? Just have them send back the "pending" funds.

Jon, I offered you the option to call me about all of this. I am a pleasant person (just ask anyone in the watch business and TZ), but I do not like to bring out my bad side, because of a transaction that was doomed from the start.

I expect to have the funds that were wired to you today back in my account tomorrow. Anything less will be unacceptable and trigger a full investigation.

Thank you!

Peter Myrtle


At this point, I thought it could be a scam, and I contacted my bank and my attorney. Both advised refund only after his funds clear. His funds cleared on Tuesday, 3/3/09, and his funds were refunded to him, at an unreimbursed cost to me.

In the end, it's the principle of the matter.

I want to advise fellow watch enthusiasts to:

1) never ship out or refund money until all funds clear, and this is confirmed with your bank.

2) Speaking broadly for transactions in general, even if people have had good deals, I would pay attention to bad deals, as I do feel, every once in a while, these bad deals may possibly reveal someone's true nature.

Disclaimer -

-- this is my personal experience only with this individual
-- I do not explicitly or implicitly suggest that the same experience will occur to others
-- I am not advising anyone to deal or to avoid dealing with Peter Myrtle.

jayc
 

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OK I read that whole thing, but still a bit confused.....did you ever get your money back or the watch that was offered for sale?
 

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I don't understand why shipping the same day is a problem? I would wait till the funds clear. I also disagree that fedex is worse tha USPS and I agree with him that priority mail dc is not true tracking. Besides that Express mail when you are insuring is sometimes cheaper than priority mail.

Glad all is reconciled though.
 

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I have not SOLD anything to Pete (did not know that he even buys from non-AD's used watches) but BUYING experience is good with him.

He is eccentric though. (No paypal and HE ships items out via Fedex 2 day or Express pretty much on WORD that my check has been sent - though I have good references)

I have to agree with previous poster though that for any watch over $1750, do check express shipment cost via USPS since that is just about cut off point where the cheap cost of insurance kinda crosses where it may actually be cheaper to send it express or just about $1 or 2 difference.
 
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