[enkidu]

At Bill's suggestion, I've taken what I find to be the more relevant images from the Project 300: Dial and case design thread.

ASPSPR
sterile

no date white hands | no date silver hands

black date wheel | white date wheel

Alternate scripts

enkidu
reduced mkii and circle-y

stew77
new vs old seamaster 300

ASRSPR
Byron font

m.and
Posted by Thieuster, SM300 style dial and hands by MKII

kywong
Comparison shot between ASRSPR: original has narrower bezel; thicker silver ring between bezel and dial, 3, 6, 9 markers are wider and shorter; original's hour indexes are larger and squarer;

kywong
Microgamma font, hour markers edited, bezel width reduced

OmegaCosmicMan
Lombritz font + date at 4:30

Yao
A-D comparisons

es355
Original Seamaster 300 with rounded date window

Watchco Seamaster 300 with squared date window

kywong
Simple Serif font example with 9 and 6 still using open fonts.

I apologize for copying the url's of the images from the other thread, but really couldn't see how to restart the thread without the images. I also apologize for any mistakes in summarizing the objective behind the images; wholesale copying of all the text would also have been impractical. I'm sorry if my editorial scissors left your post and or image on the floor; feel free to reply with a copy of your content if you deem it relevant.

 

[marchone]

I am reposting this from the original thread here in response to the many comments made about the original SM300's fonts.

Details of the SM300 changed substantially from 1957 to 1969. Fonts, indices, markers, hands, bezel, all changed during its production.

A History of the Omega Seamaster 3oo

 

[OmegaCosmicMan]

Hey, Thanks for doing this. :-!

 

[OmegaCosmicMan]

As Yao Said...

Okay the picture came out okay. So the differences are:

A & B: I just removed the Circle-Y
C & D: D has the Circle-Y removed. Both C & D are missing the word "Automatic" under the logo.

To be honest I am not a fan of the open 9s and 6s. I think its just too close to the original.

Basically I'd like to see where people come out on the layout and the text. Ultimately the 3, 6, 9 and the proportions may have to change based on the way the bezel looks and once the case design is done.

I've been thinking carefully about this and agree with Bill...that the 'open 9s and 6s' are not necessary for this watch. As Bill said, he thinks it is just too close to the original. When you study the actual Omega font used on the open 6s and 9s, you can see how, on many subtle details, that they were much more complicated (rather than simple). So not only is it 'too close', from the homage watchmaker's point of view, these open and stylized fonts might be one more difficult aspect of the steps necessary to turn out finished dials that pass muster in terms of detail and quality in order to make it to the finished product. Simpler is easier to do, from a pass/fail point-of-view in terms of part rejection because of defects in quality or finishing.

After considering all of the alternatives, and even though I would absolutely like to see the name of the watch on the dial face, as Bill said, because of the perfection of the 'Seamaster' name and the perfectly flowing font developed to show it, it will be very difficult to come up with a way to show 'Project 300' in a way that meets that standard of, well (for lack of a better term) elegance. So I can go along with 'simpler is better'- Why not go for something that is simpler, cleaner or leaner, and functional? We all know it is an Automatic movement-no need to designate that on the dial, and the depth rating is a functional designation that fits. So I am in favor of keeping the dial simple and clean. The Vantage dial is a good example (even though it has 'Automatic' on it).

So keep it simple: MKII above; one line of text with the depth rating below. Option D for me!

 

[Semuta]

I would bow out of this if it had closed 9's and 6's. I just think it deviates too much from the original and strays too much into the realm of a copy. That's actually one of the indicators of a badly faked dial before they started getting good...

 

[marchone]

Click on the link for the SM300 history I posted above. It was introduced with closed letters.

 

[Thieuster]

Apart from the 'open vs. closed' lettering, I personally think that OPEN lettering is a quality sign! Being able to print the lettering on the dial very precisely with an even spacing is difficult. i think that Bill raised the bar with the Kingston dial and (imho off course) the open lettering is the next step in MKII's quality design!



Menno

 

[ljb187]

Does anybody know the name of the font MKII uses in its "MKII" logo?

 

[David Woo]

I kinda miss the stubbies.

 

[chris7013]

Just out of curiosity.. How much relief can we expect from the lume? The originals are very pronounced because of the thick application. I realize we can get brighter longer lasting lume these days with less, but I would like to see the indices much thicker than the numbers. Is this planned / possible?
Chris

 

[enkidu]

Hey, Thanks for doing this. :-!

my pleasure! Glad to be able to help out.

 

[kywong]

I have to agree with Semuta and Thieuster on the open lettering - I can't help but associate closed lettering with a poor quality fake. It would appear from marchone's link that while the first Seamaster 300s do use closed lettering, the first of the watches with the case design this project aims to emulate (1964) is already using open lettering.

That being said, I think the choice of font for the 3 6 and 9 is more important than whether the 9 and 6 are closed or open. Indeed, the first Seamaster 300's as shown in marchone's link had closed font and doesn't look any less beautiful because of it. However, if the end product uses, say, Arial for the numbers, it'll look cheap no matter how well executed the rest of the watch is.

 

[Neily_San]

Hi Bill,

Just a few thoughts ...

Big Triangle : a must for me.
Date : I can take it or leave it, but if it is included then it must have rounded corners.
Numbers : open font please.
Name : I would still prefer the "Project 300" in script-like font. However I accept I appear to be in the minority on this now :-(
Circle-Y : I would rather leave off.
Automatic : please include under the MKII logo.

All the best.
:-D
Neily

 

[ljb187]

First time I've tried something this. I wanted to provide an option/another take for what might be included on the dial.

1) MKII has two distinctive watch lines. Adding this information to all their dials would create a sense of continuity while emphasizing that the watch in question is an MKII. I added white lettering in two examples, but my thinking was that using gold lettering for the Professional series and silver for the Specialists would help to distinguish MKII's watches from the originals they often pay homage too. I like "Pro Series" for the Professional line because it's to-the-point and modern which and suits MKII's viewpoint. My preference may have been to match the font here with the one used in the logo, but since I didn't know what that was I choose one that had a little extra heft

2) I'm not a big fan of then name Project 300 (it sounded "clubby" to me) but felt that abbreviating it on the dial gives it a useful amount of terseness and adds a bit of mystique.

3) I moved MKII logo closer to the tip of the triangle (similar to the placement of the Omega logo on the SM300). The Microsoft font I used for the name looks OK, but is just a placeholder for now.

For better or for worse, I like the bolder presentation of option A

As I stated in the other thread, I found a font called Tierra Nueva (not used on the examples but shown in the screenshot below) which I like for its historical appearance as well as its roots in seafaring and exploration. I thought this font might be especially suitable for MKII dive watches:

 

[Yao]

Thanks again Enkidu.

 

[Yao]

I would bow out of this if it had closed 9's and 6's. I just think it deviates too much from the original and strays too much into the realm of a copy. That's actually one of the indicators of a badly faked dial before they started getting good...

You raise an interesting point and perspective. The fact that a lot of bad fake SM300s essentially has colored people's view of what the watch should look like and raising the point that one would actually have more freedom to deviate from the original if it were not for the fakes out there. I would just pose the notion that the font on the dial should be consistent in style (although not necessarily the exact same font) as that on the dial, bezel, and date wheel. The other thing I would note that perhaps the we are focusing too much on an individual detail and that even if we decide to used open or closed 9's and 6's it will be the consistency in style that will carry the watch. Whereas the fakes out there were always short on a detail that they were trying to copy rather than trying to present a unified and cohesive representation of the SM300. I would suggest that its the lack of cohesion that made those other watches bad rather than the a strict attention to detail regarding the original.

Does that make sense?

 

[enkidu]

Thanks again Enkidu.

It was my pleasure! Glad to be able to help out.

 

[Yao]

Here is the lume shot finally. I had meant to post this about 1 week ago but the servers here on WUS happened to go down half-way through my creating the post.

Sorry for the color which is a bit off in the daylight shot. I think I mentioned this before but I am not too familiar with this camera. I downloaded a free light meter for my IPhone which I will have to try next time and see if I get a better result.

One point to mention...I am not entirely sure the lume on the dial of the Omega sample is C3 it may be "Natural" rather than C3 if that makes a difference to any one. The other detail is that the lume application method Omega used on these replacement dials is not the same method we will be using on the Project 300 and its not even the same method they used back in the 50s. The method we normally use on our Mk II dials is the same basic method the industry used back in the 50s.

 

[Yao]

Apart from the 'open vs. closed' lettering, I personally think that OPEN lettering is a quality sign! Being able to print the lettering on the dial very precisely with an even spacing is difficult. i think that Bill raised the bar with the Kingston dial and (imho off course) the open lettering is the next step in MKII's quality design!
Menno

My suggestion at this point is to proceed with the dial design using the closed numbers for the time being. Since the dial essentially gets printed last we can change it later after we have the mock-up of the whole watch done. I really think seeing the whole watch together may change people's minds. I am also hoping that the final design will create something that feels similar but also has its own character. If enough people still feel strongly about the open and closed numbers we can make the adjustment near the end.

For the time being let's settle the orientation of the text and logo on the dial as well as any font suggestions.

 

[Yao]

3) I moved MKII logo closer to the tip of the triangle (similar to the placement of the Omega logo on the SM300). The Microsoft font I used for the name looks OK, but is just a placeholder for now.

Oh good I thought I was hallucinating.

As I stated in the other thread, I found a font called Tierra Nueva (not used on the examples but shown in the screenshot below) which I like for its historical appearance as well as its roots in seafaring and exploration. I thought this font might be especially suitable for MKII dive watches:

View attachment 696979

Actually I like this font as well. I don't know if its right for this project but let's get some reactions from some others.

I will also see if I find time to send out an e-mail to all of the Plankowners. I'd like to get some more diversity in the feedback.