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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone checked out the Prometheus Watch Forum?

They showed their Chronograph, and to say the least it has a passing resemblance to the EII, Phantom, etc... line of chrono's. I hate to admit it, but it does somewhat make me mad when a company like Prometheus Watch, shows and hypes up a "new design", that is in fact a 90% copy of an existing watch.

While I understand that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, it's a shame that's there's not more creativity in the watch world. Perhaps there are just too, many brands.

as koboldian's what are your thoughts?
 

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I'm not a Koboldian, but I noticed the similarity as I'm sure did everyone else. I've never been a fan of homage or copy watches either. I'd rather sport an original Timex any day than a well done albeit blatant copy of a Rolex Sub, Kobold, or any other piece...
 

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Linkage (to one thread anyway):

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=180833

Umm, wow. I hadn't been over there before, and from Phaedrus' post I was expecting a piece pretty similar to the Phantom et al. But that's about as close to an outright copy without putting "Kobbold" and "Fantom" or something on the dial.

The good news is that nobody will mistake that knock-off for the real thing. The bad news is for Prometheus - it totally cheapens the brand overall to do something like this. The upstart brands that do it right, introducing their own designs and ideas, like Korsbek, Ocean7, etc, will establish a lasting quality reputation. This puts Prometheus one step above a Folex. But hey, if that's what they're aiming for, c'est la vie.
 

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Hrrmmm. . . looks very familiar to me and I've never seen a Prometheus watch before. ;-)

I guess it doesn't bother me much. To each his own.

Kev.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have to agree whit Bhaladog, there are new, inexpensive companies out there that create their own look and design, and while I do not like all of them, I can respect their creative and applaud the fact that there trying to live the American (or World) dream.

I can also acknowledge the use of private labeling, which is how Kobold started, as a time honored tradition in the watch world. Private Labeling, is contract with a company to provide their watch with your name on the dial, ala the first Kobolds, which were private labeled from Sinn. At least this is a agreement between the two parties with both benefiting.

What I do not like, is a company, which in essence steals another's design and then produces the watch with inexpensive Chinese parts and movements. While I welcome the emergence of China in the world economy, there is something fundamentally wrong when the do not respect in any way international patent and copyrights. Their emergence, in a large part is based on theft, be it software, watches, or cars...

If it was an original design manufactured in China, great, more power to them and I would welcome them to the free market.

Just my 2 cents, sorry to ramble.....
 

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It doesn't anger me, and I'm sure there is a market for knock-off Kobolds (at least, judging by the raves in the Prometheus forum threads), but it is kind of annoying. Again though, the good news is that this in no way affects Kobold, or Koboldians. Nobody will ever mistake a Prometheus Chronograph for any Kobold, and anyone who is in the market for a Kobold would likely not even think twice about a Prometheus.

I guess my feelings are best summed up as: the Chickens will come home to Roost. That always seems to hold true--whether for a watch brand, a nation, a certain New England football team (sorry, couldn't resist) ... etc
 

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I agree with the lack of originality in much of the watch industry: much in evidence as manufacturers continue to put out homages to their older models.
Otoh, I see traces of early H. Sinn dna in the phantom and other Kobold chronos, as everyone is influenced by someone or something when it comes to design. As our old friend says, easy to imitate, harder to innovate.
DW
 

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The Prometheus Chono is the "scab" that crossed the strike line.
When it comes to innovation and originality Pierre Kunz is there! I saw/handled many of his offerings at a watch fair last month. I was blown away.
 

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It doesn't anger me, and I'm sure there is a market for knock-off Kobolds (at least, judging by the raves in the Prometheus forum threads), but it is kind of annoying. Again though, the good news is that this in no way affects Kobold, or Koboldians. Nobody will ever mistake a Prometheus Chronograph for any Kobold, and anyone who is in the market for a Kobold would likely not even think twice about a Prometheus.

I guess my feelings are best summed up as: the Chickens will come home to Roost. That always seems to hold true--whether for a watch brand, a nation, a certain New England football team (sorry, couldn't resist) ... etc
Given the connotation of the that most recent quote, I find you including our nation in this quote quite offensive.
 

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**OT Warning**

Whoa! -- Wasn't referring to our nation - re-read the thread and I think you'll see what was implied. And there's nothing to be offended about in any case--unless you're a Pats fan, and that's all in good fun. Look up the colloquialism if you need to - it's about karma. I actually have no idea what connotation you are referring to, but ease back on the reins a bit, eh.

**Back to our regularly scheduled discussion**
 

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Has anyone checked out the Prometheus Watch Forum?

They showed their Chronograph, and to say the least it has a passing resemblance to the EII, Phantom, etc... line of chrono's. I hate to admit it, but it does somewhat make me mad when a company like Prometheus Watch, shows and hypes up a "new design", that is in fact a 90% copy of an existing watch.

While I understand that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, it's a shame that's there's not more creativity in the watch world. Perhaps there are just too, many brands.

as koboldian's what are your thoughts?
My thoughts are: are you kidding? Copying Kobold chrono's.:rodekaart The brand is not exactly the first in trademarking, making, developing chrono's. For example, see http://www.chronomaddox.com/heuer/articles/carrera_article/heuer_carrera_article.html
for Heuer in the 50's and 60's and let me know if seeany Kobold derivatives there? I think most auto chronos will look alike due to the valjoux 7750/51 used in the majority or them, or in the prometheus' case, some Chinese clone of the movement. And of course there are many other companies before and after heuer who were in the chrono making business.
make me mad when a company like Prometheus Watch, shows and hypes up a "new design", that is in fact a 90% copy of an existing watch. - why? Kobold chronos are at least 90% copy of others, and as Mr. Woo pointed out, branding Sinn watches is hardly original. o|:rodekaart:rodekaart
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I can fully agree with some of the points mentioned above,

The fact that most chronographs will look somewhat similar due to the characteristics of the 7750/51 movement, etc.. etc... makes perfect sense. The spacing of the sub-dials, functions of the subdials are limited by this and will remain so, unless one spends major dollars (Euro's) reworking the 7750.

We all know that with, the exception of the forester movement in the SOA-A (debate-able), Kobold is not a manufacturer, and probably never will be, as are the majority of watch companies out there and will be forced to use either ETA or another companies movement in the majority of it's product line. This will of course mean that the movement side of Kobold will share similarities with other companies.

My point in the above post wasn't as much directed to the movements per se, but rather what I consider to be the DNA of brands. Things like the case, the shape of the lugs, the design of the bezel. These stylistic design elements are show the originality of a brand and help to define it in a crowded watch world. If one were to slightly alter the Panerai crown guard, say change the angle of the curve, would that be ok to promote as an original design?

As mentioned earlier, the first Kobold's were indeed Private labeled versions of Sinn's. The difference being, in that relationship, both Kobold and Sinn agreed to it, and Sinn was compensated for it. With Prometheus Watch company I do not think that's the case. I personally know of no private labeling arrangement with Kobold or any compensation for the use of their design. I may of course be wrong as I am not privy to the inner workings of Kobold Watch Company.

as a number of Koboldian's have pointed out, there's no need to fear as I highly doubt any WIS would mistake a Prometheus for a Kobold.
 

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I dare say this is a 1:1 ripoff from my eyes; as far as the case goes. Does anyone really see a difference? Is it that easy to copy something and have it made in China or wherever this was made? I assume the supplier of Kobold cases wouldn't reproduce this for any other brand right? Is there such things as trademarks and patents in the watch industry?

That all being said, I have to say, on the surface Prometheus' chrono is a great looking watch for good reason.
 

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All you have to do is pop a 7750 in there, then your talking!!
Really weak if you ask me, at least Gnomon watch "sort of" changed their UTS copy, this is a definite Sinn/Kobold hijack, somehow that line about high form of flattery doesn't flush
eds
I dare say this is a 1:1 ripoff from my eyes; as far as the case goes. Does anyone really see a difference? Is it that easy to copy something and have it made in China or wherever this was made? I assume the supplier of Kobold cases wouldn't reproduce this for any other brand right? Is there such things as trademarks and patents in the watch industry?

That all being said, I have to say, on the surface Prometheus' chrono is a great looking watch for good reason.
 

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My point in the above post wasn't as much directed to the movements per se, but rather what I consider to be the DNA of brands. Things like the case, the shape of the lugs, the design of the bezel. These stylistic design elements are show the originality of a brand and help to define it in a crowded watch world. If one were to slightly alter the Panerai crown guard, say change the angle of the curve, would that be ok to promote as an original design?
I really wasn't pushing the movements either, but I do not see a single thing in the soarway or other Kobold cases or bezels that are unique and unmistakenly or inherently a Kobold original - there are so many watches with similar lugs, bezels, cases (after all most cases flow with the movement they're designed for). Watch design is on a continuum with a few breaks here and there, such as pocket to wrist, from analog to resin digital, but pretty much they evolve building on previous types that now make up the new watch DNA.

I don't see the prometheus as a Kobold knock off, or hommage or plain copy - it just seems to be a poor-mans chrono with a chinese knock-off 7750 commensurate with the price.

Don't get angry at chinzy looking watches. :-!
 

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would someone post a side by side comparison?

i'm not purchasing the prometheus chrono but i am purchasing the ocean diver, partially because it was a watch that was more or less developed here on the forum |>

just curious as to what the hubbub is all about :)
 

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would someone post a side by side comparison?

i'm not purchasing the prometheus chrono but i am purchasing the ocean diver, partially because it was a watch that was more or less developed here on the forum |>

just curious as to what the hubbub is all about :)
Please note: Photos are linked, not borrowed, cut/pasted, stolen, ripped off etc.


Above: Prometheus Chrono from the Prometheus Website


Above: Kobold Phantom Ti, from the Kobold site.

The list of dissimilarities would be shorter than the list of similarities.

Judge for yourself.


I'd just ventured over to the Prometheus forum following Phaedrus' post, and I have to say, the Ocean Diver looks like the start of a promising line. But this is a step in the wrong direction.
 

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Please note: Photos are linked, not borrowed, cut/pasted, stolen, ripped off etc.


Above: Prometheus Chrono from the Prometheus Website


Above: Kobold Phantom Ti, from the Kobold site.

The list of dissimilarities would be shorter than the list of similarities.

Judge for yourself.


I'd just ventured over to the Prometheus forum following Phaedrus' post, and I have to say, the Ocean Diver looks like the start of a promising line. But this is a step in the wrong direction.
I'm with you, that looks like a blatant rip.
 

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Don't get angry at chinzy looking watches. :-!
I don't know that anyone's angry - as much as annoyed.

...but I do not see a single thing in the soarway or other Kobold cases or bezels that are unique and unmistakenly or inherently a Kobold original - there are so many watches with similar lugs, bezels, cases (after all most cases flow with the movement they're designed for). Watch design is on a continuum with a few breaks here and there, such as pocket to wrist, from analog to resin digital, but pretty much they evolve building on previous types that now make up the new watch DNA.
With any "design", from architecture, to fine art, to engineering, to watches, there are extremely few "originals". As Isaac Newton paraphrased, even the greatest of innovators is "standing on the shoulders of giants".

That said, there's still a lot of room for growth and innovation in all of these pursuits. I could envision a spectrum, or continuum if you want, from "Similar" or "Influenced" design elements to outright "Copy". True originality isn't even on the scale.

I would propose that the recent Kobold models are influenced by makers that have gone before--notably Sinn--but that the overall design shows innovation of elements. There's an obvious, and documented, connection between Sinn and Kobold. There has been, however, an evolution of design from the Kobold 323 days to the Phantom, which truly stands out as a Kobold--and ('til now) nothing else.

On the other hand, that Prometheus Chrono is an outright copy. Please point out some substantive details of the design that are not identical, or nearly so, to the Phantom et al; maybe I'm not seeing it...

Similarly, if there's a current Sinn model that bears such a striking resemblence to the Phantom, I'd be interested in seeing that comparison.

Edit: OK, here's a thought--why are WE even debating this? The Prometheus guys are members of WUS--and we know they've seen this thread. So, guys, whassup?
 
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