Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 3

Avidfan said:

jimzilla said:

Alright boy's, I would like to humbly submit my latest accusation to our esteemed panel of experts on this inaugural first page of........
"Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 3"

I have not seen a proof of authenticity sticker on the back of a Komandirskie?

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Watch looks good

the back will only fit upside down but you've seen that before

the box might be from an earlier Vostok as the packaging used in 1994/95 was usually the same as seen with your Dnepr watch.

Here's another sticker

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My guess is that they were put on to prove that the watch was genuine at a time when there were a lot of Chinese fakes around.

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Here is a similar copy on sale now. Look at the matching bezel.... Do you think they made different combos? Probably.

What do you say about this Luch? Does this dial look original? What about the rest? Thanks in advance!

Avidfan said:

Odessa200 said:

Here is a similar copy on sale now. Look at the matching bezel.... Do you think they made different combos? Probably.

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I think Vostok put 1995 Victory dials into almost every case type they had and the bezel shown is well known

But it's a little bit franken as by this date Vostok were no longer putting serial numbers on their case backs...

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I see. Frankly speaking I never studied the late post soviet Vostoks. I imagine there was a state of anarch for a few years post 1992 and lots of strange models were actually made by the factory and that would greatly complicate the live of us (collectors). 🙂

I only see 1 watch above. Copernicus. Looks right but it would be better if you get better photos. With the Soviet watches, there are 2 main things to check (besides whatever watch works or not, etc):
1) fake replaced dials/hands/crown/etc. Usually easy to spot.
2) if parts original, do all parts match each other (movement corresponds to the watch, from the right time period, etc)

Obviously it is quite simplified but enough to start. Do you have access to the catalogs? Like this?

Avidfan said:

jimzilla said:

evening comrades, got some watches in the mail today and am in need of authentication by the resident panel of experts, and as always thank you in advance for your time and opinions.
This one said for parts as it doesn't work. watch keeps time but date will not change. other than that it is pretty mint condition. box and papers, no string tag.
I was also wondering if a collectable watch with papers. box, e.t.c. has the hands and lume dots re lumed and is serviced by someone like favinov does it add to the value or does it detract because it is not original any more?

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It's a NOS Komandirskie 341307, but whether to re-lume or not is down to personal preference, for some it will become a more desirable and usable watch, but for other collectors a watch with new lume will be of no interest, it's really up to you to decide

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Agree on Lume. Personally I would pass on relumed Komandirskie. Why? It is not hard to find with original Lume. Can we see what papers say?

Avidfan said:

jimzilla said:

So to play it safe if I should purchase a very rare Vostok it would be safe not to re lume or have it serviced to preserve the originality of the timepiece, makes sense.

as per your request odessa200 here is the paperwork.

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The model number of your watch is 341307 so you've got the wrong papers...

But you can still get the calendar fixed and the movement serviced, it'll still be NOS

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Out of curiosity, how the watch of that style supposed to look? Do you have it?

Personally, I would not be surprised, if in 1993, when this watch was sold, the salesperson just reached under the counter, grabbed any box/papers, put it all together and gave to the buyer. No one in USSR/Russia at that time would pay any attention to the watch code in the papers...

arkitec said:

schnurrp said:

I would agree. It appears to me to have the "1 H" so is the correct movement. The only small question I would have as to whether or not this is the "right one" is why the identification is placed on the winding gear as was done with Russian-era Raketas instead of the main plate as with other soviet-era Raketas. Maybe a "transitional", a designation that solves many problems with the collection of Russian watches.

The 2609 which has a second hand gear (2601 does not) would probably work but maybe some modification would be necessary to fit the minute hand correctly.

Finally, the numbers, of course, are only like "braile" numbers in that they can be sensed by touch. They are not actual "braile" numbers which have a different pattern of bumps for each digit.

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What do you all mean by "right one"? I'm mainly interested in this as it is low-cost and would be free shipping since it can be packed with another one I already bought from the sellers. I'm new to watches so I do not want to throw big money on anything yet. Just testing the waters.

So this is a Russian era watch? I also notice other has English on the dial but this one in Russian. I do not know how to identify it has there isn't much info anywhere.

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This watch is older than the movement inside it. Ideally, if you want to get an authentic watch, it not only should have the right type of movement but the movement should be from the same time period. As with many things, for example, movement 2601 (or 2609, etc) had changed a bit. The finishing aspects of the movement. Some minor technological changes, etc. some folks, when buying a watch from Soviet era (before 1992) want the mechanism be made at the same time. It appears this watch has a Russia made movement (post 1992). Does this matter to you? You decide. Does this decrease the value of this watch as a collection watch: most likely a lit of people will say 'yes'. Is the soviet movement better than a russian one: depends. If the old soviet movement was properly serviced it may be better. The russian movements may not that well built (some people will argue with me on this) but they are younger and this makes them better (for the everyday use). I hope this helps.

As far as Cyrillic vs English on the dial: many soviet watches were made for export: English on the dial, backs, movements. Typically you want all the writings on the watch to be done in one language. There are exceptions to this but most watches would be like that: either Cyrillic or English all around. Both versions are fine.

I bet some of you can name the seller 🙂 is there a way to exclude some sellers from your search results on ebay?

Straight_time said:

Odessa200 said:

I bet some of you can name the seller 🙂 is there a way to exclude some sellers from your search results on ebay?

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On the left column:

- Click on "More refinements"

- Open the "Seller" tab

- Tick the "Only show items from" box

- Select "Specific sellers (enter sellers' user IDs)"

- Choose "Exclude" from the drop-down menu

- Enter sellers' user IDs

- Click on "Apply"

You're done

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Thanks! I am using iPhone app and do not see it. Will try the browser and see if the searches stick. 🙂

Straight_time said:

RussianDiver said:

Hello, Do you guys think this watch is a franken watch?

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Technically speaking, not a franken but a fantasy watch; rather meaningless, though, as a 24hr dial doesn't go well with a 12hr caliber.

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Is this an official dial? Looks like made 'at home'. No?

Sometime ago I posted a photo of a Zim with an unusual dial. I am not convinced about authenticity and was looking if someone knows anything about it. Today another one like that was sold on ebay. Advertised as from 40s! Personally, if authentic, I would place it as from 70s. Posting mine and what was sold today. Just in case someone has an opinion on it or knows anything 🙂