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Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 3

350530 Views 4659 Replies 372 Participants Last post by  steros, 
EndeavourDK
This is a continuation of the "Q&A Expertise thread; Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2".

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-2-a-4514699.html

Q&A Expertise thread part 1 can be found here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-894887.html
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G
In Russia. Avito/ Meshok but without delivery. It's a little bit more expensive in Ukrain. But on ebay, from ukrainian seller's it's too expensive. They know who they are selling to...
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Odessa200
gp20 said:
In Russia. Avito/ Meshok but without delivery. It's a little bit more expensive in Ukrain. But on ebay, from ukrainian seller's it's too expensive. They know who they are selling to...
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You get what you pay for. Buying on Russian (or Ukrainian) platforms have many issues. 1) some do not allow you to register from abroad (you need a russian phone, etc). Lets say someone helps you. 2) all the payment methods of transferring to a card in some obscure bank may not work for foreigners. Many sellers do not take paypal, etc. 3) many refuse to ship abroad. 4) there are sketchy tactics there when seller’s accomplices deliberately jack up the price by placing false bids and the most important is 5)there is no real protection by these platforms. All you have is the seller’s rating but we know how trustworthy the ratings are. Buying via ebay is more expensive. True. But the buyer is protected by ebay.

I am not saying ’only buy on ebay’. By all means, people who can master the East Europe platforms and deal with some level of riskiness, should check what is offered there. I use to buy on Avito via an intermediary for a while. I would not be able to do it on my own.
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G
You're right. But I Saw tactic n° 4 on ebay too with ukrainian sellers recently and eBay don't do anything to stop it so it's not a reason for me ( account with 0 note who put bids but don't buy at final). I use Meshok and i don't have any problem until now, you Can easily put a Bad evaluation and they don't like that so they send the exact object . But you're right it's more risky ( i received the very good Big 0 Fake on it and can't do nothing After but for 35€... The cost to delivery on these countries is high from Europe so i would buy on ebay....), but less expensive. ( eBay takes a fee too, here no fee at all)
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979greenwich
gp20 said:
I have got this watch and im pretty sure that is a Fake dial. Look at the paketa inscription... At right, a good one. View attachment 17091256
Click to expand...
Maybe the printer ran out of paint :) I suggest to take out both movements and closely compare the dials. Fakes almost never use the upside-down V, but Л instead.
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C
This is the reponse from the seller regarding the big zero watch and requested return:

Hello there! Very sorry to hear that you have no enough experience with our Soviet watches especially with this very Big Zero Raketa model. Your picture you attached is 200% proof of the genuine Raketa Big Zero we sent to you. Please realize that the picture in the listing we've made at least 15 years ago. From that period we sold out hundreds of these genuine Raketa watches. Of course all of them from different parties. Probably you don't know but absolutely all products that are made in different years or even decades may have tiny difference that is absolutely normally. We have majority numbers of regulars buyers(collectors) from all around the world that order the items every month and they're more than happy with it. You're one and only who wrote such weird things. I would say that it is even offensive for us as for a trustworthy store. We sold more that 25 thousands watches here on eBay for last 20 years from 6 eBay accounts and have good reputation on the collector's watch forums. I hope you've simply mistaken. Or you changed your mind for some reason and fantasized history with watch authenticity? Please tell the truth. We will resolve this case anyway don't worry. Just need the truth...
Click to expand...

my original post with photos:
www.watchuseek.com

Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a...

This is a continuation of the "Q&A Expertise thread; Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2". https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-2-a-4514699.html Q&A Expertise thread part 1 can be found here...
www.watchuseek.com www.watchuseek.com
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G
It's their special answer... They made the same with Copernic Watches with 2609 HA instead of HN. They know and you know nothing because you aren't ukrainian or Russian and they sold 20000 Watches si they know their job.... They just want to sell their Watches, franken or not.
Compare hands between ebay's ad and your photo (V instead of U)... It's not the same. The seller is a scammer.

Look at here :
https://vintagewatchinc.com/ussr/raketa/big-zero/
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Odessa200
I agree. The seller is bad. He is full of BS. Must be avoided. If you see that the photo is not matching the actual item you have a reason to demand a return. Real watch or not: it is not as described/pictured. Ebay will support you. Demand the seller pays for return label.
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R
VWatchie said:
It's been many years since I visited this amazing thread with all its amazing experts. I've been devoting these years to mostly Swiss and Japanese watches, but my love for Russian watches has never faded.

Anyway, I would really appreciate your help and/or opinions about the following Raketa Big Zero. I've been on the lookout for a Big Zero for a long time and a few weeks ago I found an attractive option on tradera.com (Swedish eBay). Having done some research, the case, dial, crystal (flat), and hands looked legit to me and the outer condition looked near flawless. So, I decided to pull the trigger and paid approx. $120 for it.

However, yesterday I opened the case back to begin servicing it as it was running extremely poorly and I almost flinched when I saw the state of the movement (see the picture). As you can see it is absolutely filthy and looking at it through my stereo microscope it was like looking down into a grave of decay. Also, the barrel bridge has been marred by a way too large screwdriver at one of the case screws.

So, my questions are two. Is this really a legit Raketa Big Zero? I'd be more than happy to provide additional pictures if needed. Why is there such an extreme discrepancy between the outer and the inner (movement) conditions?
View attachment 17084777

View attachment 17084776

View attachment 17084774

View attachment 17084775
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I recommend getting this instead, it completly NIB and is probably much better looking. Not the same dial though.

Övriga armbandsur | Köp & sälj begagnat & oanvänt på Tradera

Köp och sälj Övriga armbandsur enkelt och hållbart på Tradera. Stort utbud av begagnade och oanvända saker på Sveriges största cirkulära marknadsplats
www.tradera.com www.tradera.com

Not sure if it's the same user I purshased from (two years ago), but he had a few nib and would put up one new every three weeks or something.
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C
Odessa200 said:
I agree. The seller is bad. He is full of BS. Must be avoided. If you see that the photo is not matching the actual item you have a reason to demand a return. Real watch or not: it is not as described/pictured. Ebay will support you. Demand the seller pays for return label.
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just an update seller said he couldn't or wouldnt pay return while insisting watch was genuine. eventually ebay stepped in and said he had to pay postage he refused and and instead told me to keep the watch and have a full refund (strange considering according to him its a genuine big zero)

he then asked for me to leave him positive feedback and not mention the watch is a counterfeit because it isnt and i dont know what im talking about.

so.... anyone want to buy a counterfeit big zero? haha
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Odessa200
cliffjnr said:
just an update seller said he couldn't or wouldnt pay return while insisting watch was genuine. eventually ebay stepped in and said he had to pay postage he refused and and instead told me to keep the watch and have a full refund (strange considering according to him its a genuine big zero)

he then asked for me to leave him positive feedback and not mention the watch is a counterfeit because it isnt and i dont know what im talking about.

so.... anyone want to buy a counterfeit big zero? haha
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The problem is the shipping from abroad to Russia: the postage is super expensive and this is why it is economically not viable for Russian sellers to reclaim back the watches sometimes.

Donate it to a Goodwill! Pass along the gift.
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G
The seller is Ukrainian, impossible for him to be Russian on Ebay.
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C
now i can keep it decided to see what the movement was in it. i have an su version movement from a paketa watch i already own, so i know what that looks like, and this one sounds a little different.

this is the movement on the fake big zero

Watch Gesture Finger Clock Gadget
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979greenwich
It's a combination of a couple of 2609.HA movements from different times (beveled and non-beveled bridges).
Edit: If you buy a few more of these, maybe it could run the seller out of business :)
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Odessa200
It is an old movement that cannot be possibly in an authentic Big Zero but I politely disagree with @979greenwich: all bridges are beveled, just old movement from early 80s.
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979greenwich
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Odessa200 said:
It is an old movement that cannot be possibly in an authentic Big Zero but I politely disagree with @979greenwich: all bridges are beveled, just old movement from early 80s.
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Ahem...

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Odessa200
979greenwich said:
Ahem...

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yes, this looks beveled to me (both cases). But maybe it is just my eyes

Here is a flat one. Look at the circled part shape.

Regardless, the partially or fully beveled movement is not what is expected in a legit Zero.
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C
regardless of what it actually is, its stopped running after 1 full wind.

it also a lot lot louder and more vulnerable sounding than the real paketa movement i have.

just a reminder the guy is selling these on ebay for 140 quid as nos, with images of a real big zero in the listing.
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Odessa200
cliffjnr said:
regardless of what it actually is, its stopped running after 1 full wind.

it also a lot lot louder and more vulnerable sounding than the real paketa movement i have.

just a reminder the guy is selling these on ebay for 140 quid as nos, with images of a real big zero in the listing.
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Stopped running: happens. Watch was not properly serviced.

It is a Real Raketa movement! Just a bit older than what is supposed to be in a watch introduced in late 80s. Luckily for us fakers are not able to fake movements. They, at worst, assemble movements from wrong parts but each part is real and authentic.
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2
Hello all, I am interested in this Slava watch, but the date wheel looks strange to me. Is this a franken? Thanks!

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Kopernik
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Hello, I'm in the market for a silver Raketa Copernicus. There is this seller called 'nostalgyua' on eBay who has listed two of them claiming they are NOS and come with original papers and box. I'm hoping to get your opinion on the legitimacy of these listings or experience with this seller. Thank you.
www.ebay.com

!NOS NEW !Ussr RAKETA COPERNIC COPERNICUS KOPERNIK gray 100% ORIGINAL box tags | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for !NOS NEW !Ussr RAKETA COPERNIC COPERNICUS KOPERNIK gray 100% ORIGINAL box tags at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
www.ebay.com

!NOS NEW !Ussr RAKETA COPERNIC COPERNICUS KOPERNIK gray 100% ORIGINAL box tags | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for !NOS NEW !Ussr RAKETA COPERNIC COPERNICUS KOPERNIK gray 100% ORIGINAL box tags at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
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