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Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 3

410K views 5K replies 427 participants last post by  Chascomm 
#1 · (Edited)
#4,362 ·
Seems to be stamped SU on the rotor bridge so I would say Soviet, as you know the calendar font is a clue as is the type of mainplate used (removable dial side balance jewel holder) etc. A Soviet movement should also have golden anti-shock springs and golden seconds hand pinion spring as found on all Soviet 24xx movements.

The balance cock that doesn't match the other two main bridges is also typical of late Soviet production 2416b's as is the large ratchet wheel screw that indicates the barrel has the new longer arbor used from approx. 1990 onwards...
 
#4,365 ·
Hello, I have been interested in getting a Pobeda Sputnik for quite a while. It was maybe a year ago I last looked around and researched, but I recently checked ebay again and found this one. From my memory, the dial and hands are legit, the numbers are too light but I assume that's just fading. Any sputnik fan who can help? :)


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#4,366 ·
Hello, I have been interested in getting a Pobeda Sputnik for quite a while. It was maybe a year ago I last looked around and researched, but I recently checked ebay again and found this one. From my memory, the dial and hands are legit, the numbers are too light but I assume that's just fading. Any sputnik fan who can help? :)


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The dial is legit and the hands are legit but this is a wrong combination. The hands belong to Sputnik with gilded numbers on the dial. And the dial belongs to hands with blue paint.
If I were you and if the price is a good one, I would buy it and replace hands (finding these hands can be tricky): I would use old hands and add the paint that matches the faded blue on the dial.
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#4,368 ·
I'm trying to figure out this one. Obviously Vostok dial & hands, has a Vostok 2414 movement. But the case, I guess it's not a Vostok case?

Do anyone know which brand the case is?

It features the typical back lid with separate fastnening ring like many russian watches have. The back lid is just marked with 3 digits and nothing else.
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#4,377 ·
#4,378 · (Edited)
No it does not. 1st of all is an obvious: it has a wrong caliber. 24 h watch need 2623. Not 2609. Note how the hands are set that it is impossible to tell if this is 24h or not. Then we see an old Soviet movement with a serial number and a more recent replaced balance. Then all these late watches had a serial number on the back cover (not movement) but this has the back polished to a mirror state. The whole watch is too shiny: possibly re-chromed. Then we see some crown that is not a Raketa crown. As far as the dial: no clue. Just before old Soviet Raketa factory went into the lala land they made similar dials personally I never felt interested in this model so never researched how real dials looks vs fakes. So the dial maybe real but I see the seller has all the possible colors for this dial so I think it is fake!

When in doubt, look at the other watches the seller has. This guy has this:


This time the caliber 2628. Again, not a 24 h caliber but a caliber that supposed to have 2 calendars.

I would avoid this seller.
 
#4,380 · (Edited)
It's been many years since I visited this amazing thread with all its amazing experts. I've been devoting these years to mostly Swiss and Japanese watches, but my love for Russian watches has never faded.

Anyway, I would really appreciate your help and/or opinions about the following Raketa Big Zero. I've been on the lookout for a Big Zero for a long time and a few weeks ago I found an attractive option on tradera.com (Swedish eBay). Having done some research, the case, dial, crystal (flat), and hands looked legit to me and the outer condition looked near flawless. So, I decided to pull the trigger and paid approx. $120 for it.

However, yesterday I opened the case back to begin servicing it as it was running extremely poorly and I almost flinched when I saw the state of the movement (see the picture). As you can see it is absolutely filthy and looking at it through my stereo microscope it was like looking down into a grave of decay. Also, the barrel bridge has been marred by a way too large screwdriver at one of the case screws.

So, my questions are two. Is this really a legit Raketa Big Zero? I'd be more than happy to provide additional pictures if needed. Why is there such an extreme discrepancy between the outer and the inner (movement) conditions?
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#4,428 · (Edited)
It's been many years since I visited this amazing thread with all its amazing experts. I've been devoting these years to mostly Swiss and Japanese watches, but my love for Russian watches has never faded.

Anyway, I would really appreciate your help and/or opinions about the following Raketa Big Zero. I've been on the lookout for a Big Zero for a long time and a few weeks ago I found an attractive option on tradera.com (Swedish eBay). Having done some research, the case, dial, crystal (flat), and hands looked legit to me and the outer condition looked near flawless. So, I decided to pull the trigger and paid approx. $120 for it.

However, yesterday I opened the case back to begin servicing it as it was running extremely poorly and I almost flinched when I saw the state of the movement (see the picture). As you can see it is absolutely filthy and looking at it through my stereo microscope it was like looking down into a grave of decay. Also, the barrel bridge has been marred by a way too large screwdriver at one of the case screws.

So, my questions are two. Is this really a legit Raketa Big Zero? I'd be more than happy to provide additional pictures if needed. Why is there such an extreme discrepancy between the outer and the inner (movement) conditions?
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I recommend getting this instead, it completly NIB and is probably much better looking. Not the same dial though.


Not sure if it's the same user I purshased from (two years ago), but he had a few nib and would put up one new every three weeks or something.
 
#4,385 · (Edited)
Many thanks AaParker . In the few catalogues I have seen, only the “pointy” hands are featured .
They are, however, encountered so often with baton hands that I can not discount this Mdl could have also been produced that way ?

We can also suppose the baton hands could have started to be fitted later on with the 2nd sans-Serif script such as your specimen ?
Maybe yours is legit & mine is wrong or, at best, “transitional” ?

From the catalogue
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#4,386 ·
Thank you very much for your comments regarding my Raketa Big Zero. I have my own theory as to why the watch itself looks almost new while the movement looks like it has been in service for many decades. I don't know what my theory is worth. Maybe it's too crazy, but I'm going to present it anyway and I'm curious to know what you think about it.

The Raketa Big Zero is one of the most popular vintage Soviet watches, and yet there is plenty of it available for purchase at relatively high prices compared to many other Russian watches with the same movement. I think the Chinese have figured this out and since they are prepared to do almost anything to make a few bucks they pirate the watch and then bang in an old movement that they probably bought a whole container of for a few pennies each. As long as the watch is ticking, they sell, and the expectations for correct timekeeping are so low that they get away with it.

To me, it is completely incomprehensible that the external condition can look so new when the movement looks like it has been used daily for 40 years. The movement is so dirty that it's a minor miracle (or top-notch Russian engineering!) that it's still ticking.

Crazy theory?
 
#4,387 · (Edited)
My theory (that was confirmed by a guy who was selling quite a few Raketas) is like this:

in the early 90s there were a lot parts left unused when the factory went bankrupt. Some were used to ‘pay’ workers. Some were simply stolen. Many were just thrown in garbage. There are watchmakers who have boxes full of these Zero dials. They sell them in bulk locally. You stop by a old watchmaker who is about to retire and buy a box. Now, that you are possession of the hot furniture (dials, hands, cases) you start assembling watches. Obviously you need movements and servicing a movement is an expensive labor intense operation that cost money and only slows your sales. The sellers make 5-10-15-20$ a watch. If they put 2 watches for sale that both look similar one for 50$ unserviced and another for 70$ serviced the cheap one will sell fast but the expensive one will sit for a month till someone who is willing to pay 20$ more. So this is how this ‘nice looking from the outside’ watches get created: they assembled from spare parts and old dirty movements strictly for a quick sale.

By only focusing on the price, we ourselves created this problem: we buy cheap and the sellers have no insensitive to sell good quality serviced watches. For soviet and Russian watches, cost of service inflates the price of the watch significant % and makes it less attractive for a lot of buyers.
 
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