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Discussion Starter #1
Recently bought a watch off the internet, the watch was described as:

" is in about 92% condition due to few light marks."

The are a nice set of photos accompanying the description and I took this to mean some light surfaces scratches due to normal wear.
When I got the watch in hand I discovered 2 dings in the watch. I was pretty disappointed to see the dings and felt I was given an inaccurate description of the watch.

What constitutes a 92% light marks description for a watch?
Am I being reasonable in expecting no dings?

Regards,

Mike
 

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Recently bought a watch off the internet, the watch was described as:

" is in about 92% condition due to few light marks."

The are a nice set of photos accompanying the description and I took this to mean some light surfaces scratches due to normal wear.
When I got the watch in hand I discovered 2 dings in the watch. I was pretty disappointed to see the dings and felt I was given an inaccurate description of the watch.

What constitutes a 92% light marks description for a watch?
Am I being reasonable in expecting no dings?

Regards,

Mike
Timezone made a good effort in trying to standardize the grading of watches with their TZ scale - that's where the 92% comes from.

Unfortunately, as can be seen many times in the FS postings here, "92%" means just about anything the seller wants it to mean. It is up to the buyer to gather as much info and pics of the watch in question and not rely on the seller's estimate of condition.

How many times have you seen watch descriptions like, "LNIB except it has been sized and worn around the house a couple of times - oh, and BTW, the strap changes shown in the pics are just to show how it looks on different straps." A watch, by proper definition, can not be Like New In Box and have been sized, worn around and had its strap changed out multiple times. A good example of where the buyer's common sense must outweigh the seller's enthusiasm.

If you are disappointed with the condition of your watch and feel it was not fairly described, contact the seller and attempt resolution - either return or a reduction in price.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I agree, it's a subjective thing, my experience has been people know dings means less than 90%. I suppose we need to be more mindful, but things will happen. I found the TZ scale and it's in agreement with my thoughts. However, there are some differences in what they describe and what I bought so I can see the conundrum...

Mike
 

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I disregard the TZ scale because it seems arbitrary, just the opposite of what it's supposed to do. And the high scores remind me of the students in Lake Wobegon schools: all above average.

A good written description and detailed photos from a seller with a good reputation is best I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I disregard the TZ scale because it seems arbitrary, just the opposite of what it's supposed to do. And the high scores remind me of the students in Lake Wobegon schools: all above average.

A good written description and detailed photos from a seller with a good reputation is best I think.
That's what I thought I had, the description looked good and figured the 92% was to reinforce the fact that the watch was in very good condition. The provided photos where also very good quality macro photos.

However, the angles made it hard to see the dings. After looking at them again, knowing where the ding was located, I could make it out in the picture, but it looks like a reflection to me...

Mike
 

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I know people use the TZ scale, but I think pictures give a better understanding all around.
 

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I have been very lucky in my WUS watch purchases. The sellers have always overstated any flaws so that, as a buyer, I would be pleasantly surprised. I know that this is not always the case but I have only dealt with honorable sellers. I have tried to live up to that standard myself when I have sold watches.

I do not feel comfortable relying on the TZ scale so I don't use it. A fair description and the best pics that I can provide have worked for me so far.

RS
 

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I also think the TZ Scale is crap because most people think everything is "at least 95%." However in this case the TZ scale doesn't mention any dings in the case until "Good" condition rated 77%-82%. In fact at 84%-87% and above it calls out no nicks or dings in the case.

If you're unhappy with the dings I'd ask for a full refund.

TZ Scale: Sales Corner Guidelines: Supplemental Provisions and Definitions - TimeZone
Good

Nothing fundamentally wrong with the watch, though it has quite obviously been used. Running and wearable, but may gain or lose a few minutes over 24 hours. Case may show a few dings, nicks, or deep scratches. May have a redial that is not up to high standards. May not have all original parts. 77-82%
 

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The TZ scale is a requirement for posting in the FS section. It shouldn't be disregarded, even if it's given as a secondary descriptor and the seller's language should match the scale.

It is somewhat subjective, but less so than myriad, individual descriptions we might otherwise have.

I make a best effort to use the TZ scale, to call out specific conditions I've noticed, and to take multiple, clear macro photos. Good photos provide a better description than mere words, except where the photos don't capture something the owner may have otherwise noticed, and augment even a best-effort TZ description.

I tend to rate my items at the lower range of a scale, to set expectations and allow for differences in rating. Ideally, the buyer should be happier to receive an item than they thought they would be. IMO.

FWIW, over time, an honest attempt to use the system should result in vastly improved ability to accurately grade watches. I've come to find that vast majority of buyers regularly tell me the watch is in much better condition than described. I've never had someone tell me that the cosmetic description was less than accurate. I disagree that the system is crap. Evaluate a watch for sale, at least as critically as one you'd buy. Use a loupe or take multiple macro photos and evaluate those.

A great many sellers seem to use the TZ language, with no regard to the actual scale. Fortunately, a great many WUSers seem to be reasonable people as well. :)

Anyhow, learn it. Use it.
 

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The TZ scale is a requirement for posting in the FS section.
Well ... no, it is not required.

Here is Rule #3:

Each sales post must have a good description of the watch (very important because we don't allow discussions in this forum!). Here's an example:

Condition: mint
Movement: Swiss ETA 2836-2 automatic
Crystal: sapphire crystal, with anti-reflection treatment
Case: titanium and steel case
Dimensions: 39.5 mm diameter, 12.5 height
Caseback: screw-in, steel
Crown: screw-down
Dial: black dial
Strap/bracelet: rubber strap with deployant
WR: 100 meters

No mention of the TZ scale whatsoever.

HTH
 

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The seller was pretty slick in using the word "marks".
Your "ding" is his "mark" I suppose.
I use words, not numbers to describe a watch but 92% should just be light, easily removed surface scratches I think.
 

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Pictures would really help this thread. But I've had a "MINT" condition watch arrive with wild scratch marks on the case back, the seller was like "well the pictures show it and its on the back where you cant see it, the watch is mint when you wear it right?". The pictures didnt show much because of glare from the sun, but honestly, to me that explanation is not good enough, MINT should be overall, not the visible part when wearing the watch doh!
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
The seller was pretty slick in using the word "marks".
Your "ding" is his "mark" I suppose.
I use words, not numbers to describe a watch but 92% should just be light, easily removed surface scratches I think.
This was my interpretation of the word mark in combination with 92%... As you said, I feel the guy was "slick", and bent the rules just enough to get away with it.

Mike IMG_7014.jpg

Can you find the ding?
 

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This was my interpretation of the word mark in combination with 92%... As you said, I feel the guy was "slick", and bent the rules just enough to get away with it.
Not that it is any consolation at this point but I think that you really need to take the time to leave feedback in the reputation forum regarding this transaction. Include pictures, they really make your case on this one. If you already have, disregard.

I pay attention to that forum when it comes time to make a deal. So far, I have only left one negative reference in there and I justified it in the text. I ask that all of my buyers and\or sellers leave feedback about me and I do the same for them. I also make it clear before the deal is finalized that I will leave feedback and although I have so far dealt with standup guys, the threat of negative feedback helps to keep everyone honest.

RS
 

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Note that this pic was one of several at different angles. After knowing it was there it became obvious, I originally thought it was a reflection. Where you able to find this right off the bat?

Mike
Hah I was fooled until he found it...that's very significant...
 
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