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Though I have been a full blown horological addict for a few years now I am embarrassed to admit I NEVER got the answer to this question; what exactly does Asian 2836 (just an example) mean? I never knew if it meant like a counterfeit so it looks the same & is even labeled ETA 2836 thus is fake or is it simply just Company A's version of a 2836 meaning it looks identical & performnce is meant to be the same but its sold as essentially a replica but under Company A's name?

Thanks everyone. Hope you guys are all safe out there!

Im fully aware that there was probably a much simpler & clearer way for me to ask this so I apologize 馃ぃ.
 

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It refers to an Asian made counterfeit 2836, made without permission or license.
 

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It refers to an Asian made counterfeit 2836, made without permission or license.
How can it be a "counterfiet" if it's made under license?
 

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How can it be a "counterfiet" if it's made under license?
"Without" modifies the word license. So it would not be made under license.

That said, I don't think islands62 is correct here. Most of these ETA movements are public domain now, so there is no license to be had. The asian clones are not counterfeit unless they are trying to sell as authentic ETA.

To the OP; they are just movements, manufactured in china, that have the same architecture and design as ETA movements (the design of which is now public domain). Do not however expect tolerances to be as good as the "real deal".
 

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"Without" modifies the word license. So it would not be made under license.
Thanks for the correction. Not sure how I missed that. I also appreciate the lesson in basic composition. :rolleyes:
 
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The Chinese managed to copy the Japanese Maglev train system that can go 375mph, and didn't do that under license. How can we be surprised that they will copy a watch movement without a license?

15560630
 

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The ETA 2836 was originally made in the 70鈥檚 and the patent has long since expired. Anyone can produce one without license. Sellita makes a Swiss made version called the SW220-1
So everyone is hopefully clear, Sellita started business as a subcontractor for ETA. Producing the base ebauches that would be sent to ETA so they could produce their various movements out of them. Sellita split from ETA to create their own manufacture sometime in the late 90's or very early 2000's? Those dates based totally on memory.

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk
 

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It's just a Chinese made clone of the ETA 2836 movement, which is perfectly legal, as the design is no longer protected by IP laws. It is only counterfeit if they are affixed with fake ETA markings.
 

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China makes these legally, since the patents have long expired. They want want folks to identify them easily as there are handsets, dials, cases are also made that fit with the various movements.
 

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One of the risks of unregulated or enforced globalization
 

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Chinese made copy, most likely not interchangeable with ETA. Most Chinese clones are good, especially Seagull and Hangzhou. However, ETA is king.
 

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It refers to an Asian made counterfeit 2836, made without permission or license.
Just to make sure other readers understand this--this is incorrect, as pointed out by others, since the patent has long since expired on the ETA 2836--thus, there is no "license", and anyone can make copies without penalties or obligations. A well made aftermarket 2836 is interchangeable with the ETA original, though some of course have simply adapted the movements to fit their own needs. An Asian 2836 is essentially a 2836 movement made in Asia--that's it. Many of the common ETA and other movements are similarly in the public domain, and free to be copied legally. The only time you could call it counterfeit is if the maker actually replicates the ETA company markings on the movement, in which case they would in effect trying to sell something as not only Swiss made, but, ETA made, where in fact it was made by others elsewhere--I haven't seen any Asian 2836s that tried to do that, however.
 

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It refers to an Asian made counterfeit 2836, made without permission or license.
Nobody needs any permission or license to produce a decades old movement. If there ever were patents on them, they expired long ago. You can even download construction drawings including the full list of parts and how they fit together from eta directly, just see their technical documentation:
->
These movements are no secret. Anyone who has the proper machines and expertise can make them. They are technically similar, but it depends on the tooling and tolerances during production if they will also show the same performance as their Swiss counterparts. But even there you get different qualities, a standard grade 2824 is quite different to a chronometer grade 2824. And then it comes down to how much work was spent to adjust it properly by hand.

So no matter if you buy from Switzerland or China, you can get different qualities of the same type of movement. According to an article in Uhrenmagazin a few years ago, the accuracy and durability of the Seagull ST36 was very much on par with the standard grade Eta Unitas 6497/8. But this is different for other movement types and other manufacturers.
 

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It refers to an Asian made counterfeit 2836, made without permission or license.
Not it doesn't and I think you know that. The patent ran out on most ETA movements a good while ago. Let's not forget Sellita are pretty much ETA clones as well. I own a watch with a PT5000 movement in it, and it runs at 0spd and has a beat error of 0.0. As you well know that is just about perfect, and something none of my ETA or Sellita watches have achieved.

Answer for the OP. They are perfectly legal copies of the original ETA movement, and in general very good
 
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15561041


Everything is fair game it seems.
 

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Aren't a lot of the components used in the watches made in China before being assembled in Switzerland. This is the same way Sellite started making watches. I read a while back that Soprod is one of the few manufactures that makes their movements completely in Switzerland.

And not all Chinese movements appear to be based on Swiss designs. For instance the Hangzhou 5000a looks to be designed in China.
 

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Aren't a lot of the components used in the watches made in China before being assembled in Sweden. This is the same way Sellite started making watches. I read a while back that Soprod is one of the few manufactures that makes their movements completely in Sweden.

And not all Chinese movements appear to be based on Swiss designs. For instance the Hangzhou 5000a looks to be designed in China.
Do you mean Switzerland or Sweden?
 
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