WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey Folks:

As a long time watch collector and Ball Newbie, the brand has really impressed me. However, there are some areas that just leave me a bit confused.

1. This is an offical Ball group, but we still do not know why the Cannonball cannot use the same second hand as every other Ball watch. So is the movement suspect, or if not, why is it that the watch can't be regulated with the standard second hand.

2. The Night Train. Fill in your own comments, too much to write about. Mine is just the way I like it, and I feel fortunate.

3. Accuracy Under Adverse Situations. We have seen some watches with accuracy that is less than expected. If it were me, and I had the ability to ask, I would ask Ball to lose the COSC, keep the great motto, and regulate a little more tightly as every owner is different and our accuracy experiences will also be different.

If I were a watch retailer, I would carry Ball in a NY minute. I write this note in a desire to see Ball be all they can be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,515 Posts
Please remember that it the week before Christmas, and every manufacture is running at full speed trying to fill last minute dealer orders, special order pieces, and orders that needed to be there yesterday.

So please, can we cut Ball USA and Ball Switzerland a break until after the holidays, as I am positive that they are in extra early, late out the door, and have been working weekends for the past several weeks. I am sure the day after Christmas they will be back in, since the holiday season doesn't end until mid-January, as they are then dealing with exchanges for dealers, and those that go out and spend their holiday bonus on watches after Dec. 25th.

I am sure they will be back able to answer questions on the forum after the 2nd week in January, so lets all give them a pass until then. I mean if we continue to bug then, our spouses won't be able to put that Ball Watch under the tree in time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,788 Posts
Hi Scott,

I might be able to help.

Here is your 1st question:

1. This is an offical Ball group, but we still do not know why the Cannonball cannot use the same second hand as every other Ball watch. So is the movement suspect, or if not, why is it that the watch can't be regulated with the standard second hand.


Firts of all, the center hand on the Cannonball is not the constant second hand, but the second's counter for the chronograph function. Now I know what you are going to say, there are other chronos in the Ball family that use the standard Ball second hand. Yes, but none of them use this movements. All of the others are based onthe VJ 7750. A large and rather powerful movement. The Cannonball uses a modeular chronograph based on the ETA 2824. The chronograph sencond hand is actually powered via the module, which is sandwitched between the dial and the base caliber. It is not as powerful as the VJ 7750. Now will it keep GREAT time? Yes. Will the chrono function properly? Yes. That being said, if Ball says, and they have on our board, that the hand was too heavy for the movement to run to their specs. I beleive them.

2. The Night Train. Fill in your own comments, too much to write about. Mine is just the way I like it, and I feel fortunate.

I do not have any experience with the Night Train other than what I have seen on this forum. Looks like a great watch to me. As for tho whole UTC thing. It never really bothered me. At its price point, it's a heck of a deal, dual time zone or not...

3. Accuracy Under Adverse Situations. We have seen some watches with accuracy that is less than expected. If it were me, and I had the ability to ask, I would ask Ball to lose the COSC, keep the great motto, and regulate a little more tightly as every owner is different and our accuracy experiences will also be different.

It's funny you should bring this up. I had some accuracy concerns with my Ball EMII TMT Diver. It was loosing over 11 sec/day. Needless to say I was disapointed. I contacted Ball service and instead of having me send my watch to be regulated under warrantee. They sent me a BRAND NEW WATCH HEAD, which I swapped with mine. Best part is they let me keep my watch until I received the replacement. I never had to go without it. HOW COOL IS THAT?!?!?!?!

I have said it before and I will say it again. This is a company that stands behind their products. And I stand behind them.

Anymore questions? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
Nicely answered, Marc! :-!


Hi Scott,

Warren makes a good point. If you still need more info with your questions, please hang in there until after the holiday season is over, and I'm sure that Ball will get back with you. ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,788 Posts
Scott. I noticed you asked (on another forum) why Ball chose a modular chrono movement instead of an integrated movement for the Cannonball. Good question!

There is no simple answer.

A lot of companies use modular chono movements; Breitling, Tag Heuer, Omega, Ulysse Nardin. There is nothing wrong with that. Many companies want to display their sub dials in a more "classic" tri-compax style. While the VJ7750 can be modified to be displayed this way and now is available from ETA in this manner, the sub dials are somewhat farther apart, which may not be good for the design of the watch. This is why Breitling likes to use the modular design. Their slide rules take up a HUGE part of the dial.

Anyway, I hope this explains it a bit...

By the way these are all modular chronographs:


















Pretty good company, no? :-!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,788 Posts
Further thoughts...

The accuracy may be affected by the heavier chrono second hand. Let me explain. The chronograph module takes it's energy/power from the base caliber. If the second hand is heavier than the specs provide, then it may draw on the energy needed for the time keeping, in essence slowing down the time. By keeping the second hand lighter, it does not draw from the base caliber, thus not affectinhg the time keeping.

Does this make sense? I am getting tired... sorry...
 
P

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I don't feel as charitable as Scott. The Cannonball was advertised with the chrono sweep second counter having the light capsule and the RR.

When asked why, Ball said accuracy wasn't up to their standards.

So, they shipped the watches with a different sweep second hand, and didn't say a word about it until I raised the question in the thread I started here.

I have posted countless posts in numerous forums saying over and over again what a great watch Ball puts out. I think that was true, and may still be true. But I note that they are now shipping products that they change from their advance publicity without notice to their loyal following that they are doing so.

Since we are all Ball Watch fans we're pussy footing around instead of being harsh in our criticism. If Rolex did this, we would rip them apart.

I've purchased two Ball watches, and have caused at least ten other persons to purchase Ball watches. I do not expect them to be disingenuous in a forum they host to assist them in communication with their most loyal followers.

And along with the rest of the world, I am free to vote on how I feel with my purchasing dollars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanx PO for getting my point. This is a democracy and we should be able to voice all opinions as buying decisions are being made based on our posts. I have three Ball watches, and I think that speaks well of my love for the brand. And yep, I can count at least 8 people, including my neighbor, who own a Ball because of me. Ditto for a guy I cycle with.

Heck, I built a website dedicated to my Ball collection...
http://insurealltrips.com/ball.htm

All I am asking for is a little better communication and a little better regulation, remembering that success is equal parts inspiration and perspiration (pardon my alliteration);-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,788 Posts
So basically what you are saying is that Ball should wait until they have produced all of their models before ever showing them to the public. That we can no longer get sneak peaks, or press pictures before all of the bugs are worked out? How are they to know how many to produce if they cannot see the reaction?

A prototype is exactly that a prototype. We knew that when the Cannoball was first shown, it was not an actually manufactured model. Correct? Why is it so bad that the littel lume dot is missing on the chrono second hand? Were you actually expecting to use the chronograph in the dark? How would you read the subdials?

In my opinion, this is a minute detail, which is understandable.

Would we rip into Rolex is if they did the same? ABSOLUTELY! Why? Because they spend a gazillion dollars in R & D and cannot afford to make such mistakes. Think about it for a minute. How big is the Ball watch Company? How many different models do they produce? How are they priced?

I will accept a few corrections from prototype to production and keep the prices reasobale.

Also, as Obie pointed out, this is their BIGGEST time of the year. Please forgive them if they are a little slow in replying, though I hope I have been able to explain a few things. I honesly feel you are making a mountain out of a mole hill...

In fact, I know a few "Purists" who would say the second hand is better off without it. Classier look, the "meat" no longer hides part of any sub dial. And again, who would use the chronograph in teh dark?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I don't think we should hold Ball to a standard any lower than any other fine watch co. Ball has long term plans to be an in house manufacturer making several hundred thousand pieces a year. They are backed by two very wealth men, one a retired CitiBank billionaire.

Why would we allow Ball to adhere to a lower standard than we would any other watch company?

No one is angry at Ball...i knew about the UTC NT dial and bought it. But imagine the first person that expected two time zones. Or the Cannonball's first owner who expected a different chrono second hand.

All I was asking for is that since Ball introduces the models in here, that they should also preview the changes here. I really thought and still think it is a fair request.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,600 Posts
jm2c, but since this is the official Ball Watch forum, shouldnt this be where they preview new models, discuss design details, recruit input on design from those of us who love their watches and advise us of changes to design when they occur? Reasonably speaking though, the percentage of their sales that actually come from this forum is probably on the low end I would think. And since they arent an internet only sales company, their communications/pr efforts are rightfully concentrated elsewhere.

That being said, I would like to see them put more into 'officializing' this forum and increasing their customer participation here. If you look at the Ball Watch USA website, their isnt even a link to or mention of this forum that I could find. All of the new product information links from the homepage direct to announcements on timezone. I would imagine they probably dont have enough personnel to dedicate someone to this effort, but would like to see that change starting with making new product announcements here (linked from their website).

again, jm2c, and not a castigation by any means - as a matter of fact, if I can help in any way, would be glad to do so (I can be had cheap, no money, just watches...heh)...
|>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I have always felt that we in the group could be a great asset, and I will donate whatever time necessary to write the pages etc, if supplied with the data, etc from Ball. We could buy a site BallWUSFORUMOFFICIALNEWS.com or whatever, and a few of us could take the raw data and turn it into something quite kool indeed.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,600 Posts
Same here on the accuracy, Brian... both of mine have settled in at +3 sec/day... |> Do we have an eta on the new dials for the NT? I pretty much decided I will get a redialed one, but as you said, only if the tube colors dont change as well... ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Two of mine were spot on, one was way off an needed regulating and is now spot on as well.

I like my NT the way it is. But if I bought it based on preproduction photos expecting two time zones than, well, that is my point after all, communication.

1. If changes are going to be made from the preproduction photos, posted in the group, is it possible to post the actual photos as well prior to watches hitting the dealers.

2. It seems like 70% or so have good accuracy results from what I have seen in searching past posts...but that also means 30% have less than satisfactory results.

+10 seconds a day is too high, -10 seconds a day is certainly a highly undersireable situation. How about +8/-6 as the minum acceptable standard?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
785 Posts
First off, I have more than one Ball watch. I like Ball watches, and I have a positive feeling for those who work for the Ball watch company.

However, if folks will take a minute to visit the ballwatchusa.com website, I believe you will find that they are not just shipping models different from "prototype" information, they are shipping models that are different from what they are advertising on their official site.

There is nothing wrong with sharing pre-production, prototype info, but I'm disappointed that current information does not match the actual products being manufactured and sold.

--Keith
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,999 Posts
I wasn't aware the watches sold were different from the specs on the site. I've got to say the Hydrocarbon line has definitely wowed me on specs alone. It takes a lot to get my attention and so far Omega and Ball has done it and otherwise Seiko has been my only sure-fire solution to keeping my happy in all aspects. I wouldn't call Omega hugely well known in the Rolex sense, but the fact that Ball is lesser known quality amazing watch, that's enough for me to choose it over the Omega. Just my two cents as a person that doesn't yet own one, but admires from afar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Agree on the +10/day. This is about where I'm at with my 2 week old Fireman and I'd certainly like to see it go down to the range you suggested.

I will say though, that it is a positive that it's consistently +10-11/day regardless of night time position, so at least it's precise.

Two of mine were spot on, one was way off an needed regulating and is now spot on as well.

I like my NT the way it is. But if I bought it based on preproduction photos expecting two time zones than, well, that is my point after all, communication.

1. If changes are going to be made from the preproduction photos, posted in the group, is it possible to post the actual photos as well prior to watches hitting the dealers.

2. It seems like 70% or so have good accuracy results from what I have seen in searching past posts...but that also means 30% have less than satisfactory results.

+10 seconds a day is too high, -10 seconds a day is certainly a highly undersireable situation. How about +8/-6 as the minum acceptable standard?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
A prototype is exactly that a prototype. We knew that when the Cannoball was first shown, it was not an actually manufactured model. Correct? Why is it so bad that the littel lume dot is missing on the chrono second hand? Were you actually expecting to use the chronograph in the dark? How would you read the subdials?

In my opinion, this is a minute detail, which is understandable.

In fact, I know a few "Purists" who would say the second hand is better off without it. Classier look, the "meat" no longer hides part of any sub dial. And again, who would use the chronograph in teh dark?

From this thread below.... I think most of us absolutely love the CB from the Production photos. But when it came down to it. The RR on the balance is what completes the "dressiness" factor and is a Deal-breaker in many eyes. Not the Tritium tube on the chrono hand which I agree is a Minute detail.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=101821

The website was changed (Current model with 14 tubes) from original specs (Prototype - 15 tubes). Remember that this "prototype" was in all the release photos, the 2007 BALL catalogue, in December 2007 WATCH TIME, and just about every e-mail Ad to subsribers...in addition to the Website.

So take our little voices away from this Official Forum and you may have a few hundred or more wondering what the heck is wrong with their newly bought Cannonball. Or just as bizarre...why their Night Train tubes are a different colour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
The good thing to note is that Jeremy Hogan says a later version of the Cannonball will have the signature RR.

The 2050 should (and will) be able to handle the standard RR hand in the future. However, for this release, we did not have a chance to complete the modifications in time. So rather than put out a potentially substandard product, we have opted to make a small change to the seconds hand.

Happy Hunting.

Regards,
Jeremy Hogan
Ball Watch Company
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The good thing to note is that Jeremy Hogan says a later version of the Cannonball will have the signature RR.

This is interesting Brandon. A step in the right direction for sure. If we in some small way influenced the decision, than the group has been heard which is great.

On the "official front," I have seen official posts that say the base is a 2824, yet another from Mr. Hess stating it is a 2892 (harder to do, but possible.) What is it?

For my .02, I would not just not buy a modular chrono, although the looks of this one are tempting. I just can't see this as being a mechanical advancement over a movement designed from the ground up as a chrono, and there are many available to be used as base movements.

Moonphases, tides, these need modules, a chronograph module seems like a way to say this watch has a lot of jewels, which goes against the philosophy of Webb C. Ball himself.

Your mileage may vary, and it certainly is an attractive timepiece.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top