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You are quite correct, you really have found the rarest flightmaster ever, and it really is a steal for $2000!

It is, without doubt, a genuine watch.

Not everything is in the Omega Vintage Database.

In this case the 2914 which usually identifies a Railmaster was also used for a special order to the F.A.P. in 1963. That's a lovely and completely appropriate 286 movement in the correct case with the right soft iron Faraday cage and a dial so authentic that it glows! It should, if the world was fair, eclipse the price of both the 6b /542 or the Railmaster. This is one that should really be in Maddox Speedmaster territory as it is a super rare classic with remarkable good looks and which is totally usable everyday. In short, at $2000 it is a complete bargain and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it goes for double that.

However, there is a better reason to avoid it like the plague: the 1963 Flightmaster had lots of radium lume and that looks worryingly authentic to me!

If it wasn't basically radioactive waste and had had a buy it now, I would already have bought it. However it doesn't and I don't fancy the terrifying range of cancers that radium offers.

I will be watching it like a hawk though.

*edit*

Had a bit of a search and found this:

http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11859

scroll down a bit to get to the photos.

*edit*

$3,319.00

Someone got a bargain!
 

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Is radium really that dangerous in such small quantities? I know that it was a killer for those applying it, but for the wearer? :think:

Really interesting find, Charlie!
 

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this thread is another shining example of why we should not pretend to be e-bay police...
 

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Matt said it all. This is likely a genuine example that was supplied to the FAP. The main drawback to this specific example, IMO, is the wear on the case back which obscures the writing and the FAP markings.


You are quite correct, you really have found the rarest flightmaster ever, and it really is a steal for $2000!

It is, without doubt, a genuine watch.

Not everything is in the Omega Vintage Database.

In this case the 2914 which usually identifies a Railmaster was also used for a special order to the F.A.P. in 1963. That's a lovely and completely appropriate 286 movement in the correct case with the right soft iron Faraday cage and a dial so authentic that it glows! It should, if the world was fair, eclipse the price of both the 6b /542 or the Railmaster. This is one that should really be in Maddox Speedmaster territory as it is a super rare classic with remarkable good looks and which is totally usable everyday. In short, at $2000 it is a complete bargain and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it goes for double that.

However, there is a better reason to avoid it like the plague: the 1963 Flightmaster had lots of radium lume and that looks worryingly authentic to me!

If it wasn't basically radioactive waste and had had a buy it now, I would already have bought it. However it doesn't and I don't fancy the terrifying range of cancers that radium offers.

I will be watching it like a hawk though.

*edit*

Had a bit of a search and found this:

http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11859

scroll down a bit to get to the photos.
 

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That's the problem - as you can see it has thoroughly eviscerated the lume substrate which is now just beta emitting dust which will leak out of any holes, into your skin or lungs and some will ultimately end up in your lung or bones. I borrowed a Geiger counter from my old department a year or two ago and scared the hell out of myself.

If you are collecting anything pre sixties with lume watch out for the dark dark brown lume and beg borrow or steal a counter just to check. Even wearing a tritium watch leads to detectable radioactivity in your urine when you are wearing it. Some sixties watches ended up with Strontium lume - very bright!

Personally I am convinced that there is no really safe dose of radioactivity.
 

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On a few of my vintages I am definitely able to detect a good signal with a hand held Geiger counter with a pancake probe. Given the physical half life of Radium, for example, there is plenty radiation left in the watch unless the lume was removed. The biological T1/2 is also significant for Radium, so you would be stuck with it for dozens of years if it got into your system.



That's the problem - as you can see it has thoroughly eviscerated the lume substrate which is now just beta emitting dust which will leak out of any holes, into your skin or lungs and some will ultimately end up in your lung or bones. I borrowed a Geiger counter from my old department a year or two ago and scared the hell out of myself.

If you are collecting anything pre sixties with lume watch out for the dark dark brown lume and beg borrow or steal a counter just to check. Even wearing a tritium watch leads to detectable radioactivity in your urine when you are wearing it. Some sixties watches ended up with Strontium lume - very bright!

Personally I am convinced that there is no really safe dose of radioactivity.
 

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If you are collecting anything pre sixties with lume watch out for the dark dark brown lume and beg borrow or steal a counter just to check. Even wearing a tritium watch leads to detectable radioactivity in your urine when you are wearing it. Some sixties watches ended up with Strontium lume - very bright!
Cripes!!!
 

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Tritium's half life is 12 years and it is an alpha radiation emitter

Radium has a half life of around 1600 years and emits beta radiation.

Sadly it is close enough to calcium to find its way into your bones. Generally we replace most of our body over an period of time and most things will be out by ten or so years but as Joe points out, and he really is the expert here, radioactivity is a little more complex.
 

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You guys are so uptight. I've been wearing radium watches for years and suffered no ill effects.

 

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You guys are so uptight. I've been wearing radium watches for years and suffered no ill effects.

i had no idea that Alex was Dr Manhattan!

[/QUOTE]
 

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What the ??:rodekaart
Nothing special or rare there that I can see...in fact it looks franken.
Man oh man...some sellers.<|
Why is there no 'utterly smug grin' emoticon? :-x

OK, so fair enough, this is maybe not a recent Omega model and an easy mistake to make but this is a perfect thread nonetheless to demonstrate why the 'report it quick' brigade are not always right. :-d:-d:-d
 

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this is maybe not a recent Omega model and an easy mistake to make but this is a perfect thread nonetheless to demonstrate why the 'report it quick' brigade are not always right. :-d:-d:-d

And your point is?

And on the other side of the mouth you suggest this:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=356799

99% of the time the fake Omega on the bay reports are exactly that. Correctly identified replicas.


No one is perfect but if we can stop one person from being robbed, I would think the effort is worth the time?
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And your point is?

And on the other side of the mouth you suggst this:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=356799

99% of the time the fake Omega on the bay reports are exactly that. Correctly identified replicas.


No one is perfect but if we can stop one person from being robbed, I would think the effort is worth the time?
__________________

While I agree that if "one person can be saved"-they should be. But I think the point was not only the rush to judgement but the premature glee, pride, umbrage, and then indignation that went along with the post. If-e.g. the op had been a little bit mre circumspect and posted a 'warning' or a querie about whether what seems obviously fake to him might or might not be?

On this forum-as friendly as everyone tends to be- I still try hard to keep my impulsive insights a bit in check because there is almost ALWAYS some member who can (and does) clarify things in much greater detail.

I have to go with the "against rushing to report" side here. [unless its one of the most obvious of chinese fakes that even beginners can tell apart from the real thing.]
 

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I suspect that, if you read Gav's more general comments, the subtext of his other thread was: and so the people who want to get excited about fake busting can enjoy their hobby on their own forum and leave the main forum in peace. There is no double standard there; just frustration with being harangued.

Personally I have to confess that I share Gav's frustration. Not with people who vaunt (now that's a word you don't use often) but with people who lecture and then disappear. I know from previous conversations that Gav, like many forum members, reports fakes on a regular basis. Like most forum members he considers it a dull chore that, every so often, throws up an 'interesting' franken or new type fake that is worthy of discussion or so flagrant that it is funny. most of the time he just does it when appropriate.

That new members are enthusiastic about busting fakes is great, but it is just like taking the garbage out. It's one of those jobs you just get on with.

In the case of this Flightmaster, I can see exactly why it looked like a franken: it is! The only thing was, it was a franken made by Omega themselves. And frankens like that are valuable! In short, the intuition was good, and I would say that it was an appropriate thing to post - an authentic looking Franken that could trick the moderately well informed.

However, I do have a problem with people insisting that everyone reports obvious junk. This is just intrusive and insulting. So, apparently, does Gav.
 

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Well, the good news is that the hands are not radioactive. The bad news is that they are blatantly modern. As for the dial, I'm not sure: there are three parts to lume, the substrate (some sort of glue), a substance that will phosphoresce (like phosphorus for example) and, in the case of radioactive dials, a radioactive element.

Three have been used: Strontium, by Rolex, by accident. (this is very very lethal indeed) Radium which has significant risks and which with heavy long term exposure will give you bone cancers and tritium which is much more benign but has been connected with a wide range of cancers.

Sadly, you can only really talk about the substrate and phosphoresent parts. However, radium tends to cause browner lume more quickly as the substrate is being bombarded with more and heavier radiation and so tends to 'rot' more rapidly.

In your case the lume on both the dial and hands looks modern and so I would say you are probably safe. Leave it in a light proof box for a day or two, take it out in the dark. if it is still glowing then you know that it is radioactive.
 

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Bear in mind that was an ISO 800 exposure on a 50mm f/2.8 compact macro wide open for 20 seconds... the green glow in the rest of the pic was the LED from the camera on-light itself... the room was pitch black. :)

The hands on this piece look to be significantly the worst part about it- with some pitting/aging on them. The crystal is not original, so there's a good chance this piece suffered some sort of trauma and was redone at some point from a hand perspective.

The dial on the other hand is only suspect due to the lume markings... which seem to be "blorped" onto the hour markers. I'm still looking for that period's counterparts (bumper 342/352). For now I think I'm probably "safe" from turning into Peter Parker anytime soon.
 
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