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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all im new to the forum.
I recently bought a raketa big zero black with white markings from samun off ebay.
I posted it in the "show us your big zeros" thread, to which someone has pointed out maybe the dial is not original due to poor printing of the white on black.
I would be grateful for some of your opinions on this please.
Thank you.


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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you all for the comments. I wasnt too concerned myself, it was just what another user commented so i thought i would ask more people what they thought. Which confirms what i thought. Thanks


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Yes, this is me who is suspicious about these watches, but perhaps it's for nothing.

Analog watch Watch Clock Wall clock Fashion accessory


I have one and I like it but the fact is that I thought that no black "big-zero" dials where existing with the big case.
I also feel that the printings are poorest on this black dial than on the same-but-white dials or on the "black big-zero" dials used in the little round cases : on this big black dial, the white painting is not very sharp and don't cover the black very well.
On the little black dials used in round cases, this problem doesn't exist.
I already have 3 other ussr big-zero : two big cases with white dials and one little case with black dial, so I can compare.
What I can see is that my other "big zero" dials from soviet era are very well printed, with very thin markings.
I have seen late big-zero russian dials from the 90's with poor printings and this black dial make me think about them.

I know that the little and big "big zero" dials have few differences :
- indexes on little dials are pointed and the end of the numbers are squarred.
- indexes and end of numbers on big dials are rounded.

It seems that everything in the design of this big black big-zero is correct except that it is... black !

But the other fact is that before buying mine to Samun, months ago, I have never seen any other like that, and now I have never seen this watch somewhere else.
I trust in Samun which is one of the best ebay seller of russian watches (probably the best for Raketa watches) and I bought him many watches but I am still suspicious on the origin of these watches that I have never seen in any Raketa catalogues for example.
Samun have sold dozens of these big black "big zero" but I have never seen any other somewhere else...

I've written to Samun to ask him the origin of these watches and he told me that he have bought all of them to a watchmaker who had them from different people.
He also says that he have seen these watches before in many great collections.

To end this round-up, I have to say that one of the watches Samun sold have a date hand-written on it's back (11.12.86) which could be a proof that this watch is genuine.
... Or not !
;-)

Personnally, I like this watch and I have one : franken or legit one, no matter, I will keep mine, but I would just like to know more on it and/or try to find the story of these black big-zero...
Sorry to ask myself so many questions, probably for nothing.
 

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The big zero, while a desirable watch which every soviet collection should include, are not that hard to find in decent condition at a moderate price [...]
200% agree !!!

[...] so the motive for faking is really not there.
So...
What to say about that :

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Watch Analog watch Black Watch accessory Fashion accessory
Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Black Strap


Watch Analog watch Pink Watch accessory Fashion accessory


Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap


Analog watch Watch Clock Fashion accessory Wall clock


Analog watch Watch Clock Fashion accessory Wall clock


:think::think::think::think::think:

Unfortunately, "moderate price" for us equals sometimes many weeks of work in eastern countries...

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/fake-raketa-big-zero-made-china-888475.html#post6541579

Few years ago, Raketa itself says that 90% of the new Raketa watches for sale were fake or franken...
 

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200% agree !!!

So...
What to say about that :

View attachment 1571093

View attachment 1571095

View attachment 1571096

View attachment 1571097

View attachment 1571098

:think::think::think::think::think:

Unfortunately, "moderate price" for us equals sometimes many weeks of work in eastern countries...

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/fake-raketa-big-zero-made-china-888475.html#post6541579

Few years ago, Raketa itself says that 90% of the new Raketa watches for sale were fake or franken...
Yes but there's a big difference between fake and franken in my mind. Many frankens exist especially when it comes to the hands which should always be the trademark solid blunt ones, in my opinio, found on no other watch and is a dead giveaway. Also some fakes exist but not nearly as many as say for Gagarin sturmanskie, etc. But you make a good point about the difference in economic situation.
 

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We could have a debate about how many fake or how many franken a watch is, if it is more franken or more fake.
You're right when you mention the Sturmanskie and you could also mention the Sputniks watches, for exemple...
When only a second hand, a dial, or few things to change could help you to multiplicate the price of a watch by 4 to 10 times it's original price, it is easy and very tempting for whom have parts and knows how to change them, to do it...

Most of the examples I've shown in my last message are legit with a fake dial in the best case, franken with fake dial and real Raketa parts (but not the good ones) for most of them, all fake with a Raketa caliber for the worst and even 100% fake for the chinese one.

That's why I try to know what to think about the black one shown at the beginning of this thread :

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For me it's a legit watch with a suspect dial.
Perhaps the dial is fake, perhaps not.
But it's very easy to produce fake dials for who have the tools and knows how to do (look at all those fake dials produced in eastern Europe...).
This dial is printed "cccp" but it makes me think about those from the 90's era, so badly printed that we should think it was fakes dials (very thick markings), like this one from Samun's collection and shown by Samun dated from 2000 :

Analog watch Clock Watch Wall clock Fashion accessory
Metal Watch Fashion accessory Silver


and there, the official picture from Raketa catalogue :

Watch Analog watch Fashion accessory Watch accessory Font


My problem with the black one is that I have never seen any picture of it in official sources (catalogues, Raketa database, etc) and that it seems to be from the 80's and not the end of the soviet era, as this case back of a black watch says :

Metal


"11.12.86"

I'm sorry to insist but I just try to understand / to know the story of these watches as precisely as possible.
Many collectors or enthusiasts people who own watches they like want to think they are genuine when they don't have the proof they are not.
I can understand but I always prefer to consider a watch is a fake or a franken when I have no proof it is a legit one.
For the example of this black one, as nobody can show me a picture from an official source, I prefer to stay doubtful !

(P.S.: Please folks excuse my bad english which transform what I try to explain into long, long, long and very heavy messages...)
 

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First of all I personally don't mind if a particular model is soviet era or post-soviet Russian era. (Potential quality issues aside) I know the Soviet CCCP ones tend to be more collectible, but to me personally it's the design and functionality that matters most for a watch like this. So just because a Russian watch was made in the 1990s or later and says 'made in Russia' instead of USSR, that doesn't make it fake in any way. (Although I would consider it fake and a big nono if it was a recent watch with CCCP on it.)

The big zero, while a desirable watch which every soviet collection should include, are not that hard to find in decent condition at a moderate price so the motive for faking is really not there.
Well, consider you're a watchmaker/seller in Ukraine or Romania or wherever and have a Raketa watch with the same case and movement that you are servicing anyway to get it ready for sale. It has a grubby looking dial that just isn't very attractive or remarkable. Say something crappy like this:

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Clearly the Big Zero dial just looks nicer and makes the watch easier to sell, and/or sell for a higher price. It just makes for a nicer watch, even with the wrong hands. So you put in an aftermarket Big Zero dial.. That's not wholesale faking, it's closer to cobbling together a watch that will sell. Now clearly you don't want to buy it because the hands will likely be wrong at the very least, but the point is that there is a motive for the seller / watchmaker to do it.

200% agree !!!
So... What to say about that :

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That's an homage. :) Or, creating a watch based on an iconic design.
 

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The big zero, while a desirable watch which every soviet collection should include, are not that hard to find in decent condition at a moderate price so the motive for faking is really not there.
I just found this thread while digging through WUS for something else. Being a huge watch collector, and working in Moscow for the time being, I can say with certainty that there is a HUGE market here for fake Big Zeros. In fact, I just spent two hours running through Izmailovo market yesterday looking for a Big Zero for a friend. I found fake after fake after fake. Tourists were snapping them up at 5700 rubles a pop. That's $100 these days. I finally settled on a black dial one because it was the only clean dialed version (no additional graphics) that I could find with an original dial. The bottom line is that about 90% of the Big Zeros I find in Russia are frankenwatches or fake, reprinted dials intended for the foreign buyers.
 

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I just found this thread while digging through WUS for something else. Being a huge watch collector, and working in Moscow for the time being, I can say with certainty that there is a HUGE market here for fake Big Zeros. In fact, I just spent two hours running through Izmailovo market yesterday looking for a Big Zero for a friend. I found fake after fake after fake. Tourists were snapping them up at 5700 rubles a pop. That's $100 these days. I finally settled on a black dial one because it was the only clean dialed version (no additional graphics) that I could find with an original dial. The bottom line is that about 90% of the Big Zeros I find in Russia are frankenwatches or fake, reprinted dials intended for the foreign buyers.
Interesting! Would you say that its one of the more popular tourist watches?
 

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Hello all im new to the forum.
I recently bought a raketa big zero black with white markings from samun off ebay.
I posted it in the "show us your big zeros" thread, to which someone has pointed out maybe the dial is not original due to poor printing of the white on black.
I would be grateful for some of your opinions on this please.
Thank you.


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This is not a true reply. I just bought a white "big zero", I'm noting dirt on the dial and that I need and the there is a small chip (really small) right under the "3". I bought it on ebay. It does not say who is posting it, but the address is in Sumy, Ukraine. the seller is "vitlaza_39. Have you heard of this seller and what do you think of the watch?
 

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This is not a true reply. I just bought a white "big zero", I'm noting dirt on the dial and that I need and the there is a small chip (really small) right under the "3". I bought it on ebay. It does not say who is posting it, but the address is in Sumy, Ukraine. the seller is "vitlaza_39. Have you heard of this seller and what do you think of the watch?
Welcome.
a) this is a very old thread
b) this seller sells a lot of franken watches…
c) not completely sure about your question about the watch. Maybe you can add photos and state precisely your questions
 
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