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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm familiar with cycling power training and the TSS, CTL, ACL metrics, and am kinda' intrigued with my new Ambit2's calculation and tracking of recovery hours. Damn, when I got into a 100hr recovery deficit, I was seriously fatigued and all my running injuries popped up. this morning's run I was at a 30hr deficit- and wasn't too bad, but still on the down side. Is there any information about how this metric is calculated and how to use it for training? Training for an ultra, and this, conceivably, could be used as a guide to help me push my fatigue load, but not too high?
 

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I'm familiar with cycling power training and the TSS, CTL, ACL metrics, and am kinda' intrigued with my new Ambit2's calculation and tracking of recovery hours. Damn, when I got into a 100hr recovery deficit, I was seriously fatigued and all my running injuries popped up. this morning's run I was at a 30hr deficit- and wasn't too bad, but still on the down side. Is there any information about how this metric is calculated and how to use it for training? Training for an ultra, and this, conceivably, could be used as a guide to help me push my fatigue load, but not too high?
I don't think anyone knows yet what the formula is they use for the calculation. But I suspect that it mainly involves the total load of a workout (EPOC gain).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
except epoc, as i understand it, is a metric of short term intensity, not total stress load. not really sure what the pte is either. These seem to be some useful metrics- I just wish we had a good explanation of them. I can report, that the recovery hours seem to be right on for me (after setting all the HR zones, which I have reasonably accurately measured.
 

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except epoc, as i understand it, is a metric of short term intensity, not total stress load. not really sure what the pte is either. These seem to be some useful metrics- I just wish we had a good explanation of them. I can report, that the recovery hours seem to be right on for me (after setting all the HR zones, which I have reasonably accurately measured.
Yes, peak EPOC is a measure of short term intensity, but it can also be used as a measure of total load by adding up all the gains.

For example, this move:

Green Text Font Technology Plant

This move was 15 hours long and recovery time was 120 hours. The peak EPOC was only 50, but if you add up all the gains (like you would for total elevation gain), then the total EPOC gain would be around 400 or so. Surely they use other factors as well (and maybe they just use the TRIMP formula), and probably add more weight in the higher EPOC zones (eg. a gain of 50 from 150-200 would probably be worth more than a gain of 50 from 0-50). Anyway, our highly valuable member OR_Watching is the expert is this and knows 100x more than I do about the math and science behind it.
 

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I'm familiar with cycling power training and the TSS, CTL, ACL metrics, and am kinda' intrigued with my new Ambit2's calculation and tracking of recovery hours. Damn, when I got into a 100hr recovery deficit, I was seriously fatigued and all my running injuries popped up. this morning's run I was at a 30hr deficit- and wasn't too bad, but still on the down side. Is there any information about how this metric is calculated and how to use it for training? Training for an ultra, and this, conceivably, could be used as a guide to help me push my fatigue load, but not too high?
If you have a Mac, rubiTrack will provide LTS, TSS, TRIMP and SB from the Suunto data. It does not use EPOC to calculate the stress levels. I found the recovery time to be far too inaccurate for my training where it is typically at 120h most of the time. Here is a screenshot of my LTS from rubiTrack for 2013 filtered to show only moves that involved HR data and no gym workouts, etc. The peak in June is the 100 mile race I trained for. You can see I am starting to ramp up the training again. rubiTrack is a great program and the stress parameters were very similar to Training Peaks when I was using both. I gave up on Training Peaks as they are unwilling to support Suunto devices and are primarily geared toward cycling and triathletes. Training Peak's coaching is poor for ultra events (IMO).

Text Plot
 

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Between you and pjc3, it's all I can do to stop myself from buying a Mac just for rubitrack. o|
I'll add more fodder to the fire, rubiTrack now directly syncs with Movescount, it does not access the folder on the hard drive and can batch download all in Movescount at one time:) The new iOS app is the same and syncs directly with Movescount, pretty awesome, sorry the PC does not have this elegant solution and you could probably find a cheap used Mac, oh yeah the Macs will run Windows no problem either free if you want to boot directly or with Parallels or VMWare if you need to run both side by side. I use Parallels for scientific apps that don't run on Macs.

All sarcasm aside, I found the stress calculations in rubiTrack spot on and as good or better than Training Peaks, which I used to use for bike racing training.
 

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I'm checking into it. My peak season doesn't begin for several months, but I'd like to have that program in place by then. I'll probably get one of those cheaper compact size mac desktops (so I can put it out of sight) and get a switcher for the monitor/keyboard/mouse. If I do get a Mac, it'll be the first time I've given Apple any money. I'm not a big fan.
 

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I run W7, W8.1 and OS X (Maverics) on a variety of hardware. There is a lot to be said for OS X. Think of it as being bilingual!
OK, I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll probably want to make a cash purchase and strip the logos though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the RubiTracks info. given how many tools I'm currently using, I'm not sure I can bring myself to adding another. Argh! I have been using Golden Cheetah for a couple years- perhaps that's also a solution?

i've only been using the Ambit2 for a few weeks, and for me (with my HR zones and LTHR correctly entered) the recovery time seems to be working remarkably well. I'd love to see a white paper that describes the exercise science behind it all. I do love the convenience of being able to just look at the watch before my run, and have it give me that 'independent' assessment of where I am in my fatigue load. Funny - it's one of the features I didn't even know about, but might be one of those little things that makes me enjoy the Ambit2 that much more than my Garmin.
 

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No, not too crazy about the idea.
If your hesitation is about the MacOS and/or bothering to learn it, don't forget you can buy a Mac and a copy of Windows7 and happily avoid all the Mac-ness. And re-boot just for rubi-track.
Apple - Support - Boot Camp
But probably you know that.

Several surveys have claimed a Mac running windows is the most reliable PC. Hardware-wise, I believe it. But I'll bet some SW compatibility quirks creep in here and there. But then again, PC's can be equally frustrating.

The 2013 MacBook Air with the Haswell chip has astonishingly good battery life, relative to any other laptop. Supposedly 13-15hr battery life. If that's what you want.

But if you don't like Apple for other reasons, like they are actually the Dark Side, well, then may the force be with you.

(Full Disclosure: I own stock in Apple, Microsoft, Intel, AMD, HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Seagate, and Radio Shack)
 

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If your hesitation is about the MacOS and/or bothering to learn it, don't forget you can buy a Mac and a copy of Windows7 and happily avoid all the Mac-ness. And re-boot just for rubi-track.
Apple - Support - Boot Camp
But probably you know that.

Several surveys have claimed a Mac running windows is the most reliable PC. Hardware-wise, I believe it. But I'll bet some SW compatibility quirks creep in here and there. But then again, PC's can be equally frustrating.

The 2013 MacBook Air with the Haswell chip has astonishingly good battery life, relative to any other laptop. Supposedly 13-15hr battery life. If that's what you want.

But if you don't like Apple for other reasons, like they are actually the Dark Side, well, then may the force be with you.

(Full Disclosure: I own stock in Apple, Microsoft, Intel, AMD, HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Seagate, and Radio Shack)
Thanks for the info. If Rubitrack stays exclusive to the Mac then I'll probably get one sooner or later. Nice to know that they can run Windows as it makes that Dark Side a little brighter. Besides, there will probably be a few other programs down the road that I'll want to have a Mac for and if so I'll be ready. One thing I hate more than going to the Dark Side is not having access to content that I want. :-d
 
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