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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Doe anyone know the model for this watch? There are no model stamp and it is missing the original case back. It also has a damaged balance shaft.

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Any info on the watch would be appreciated, I would like to know the model so i can look for a case back. I haven't seen a manual winding bubbleback, do they come manual or is this an incorrect movement for the case? Also any pointers on where to get a replacement balance shaft would be great. Can/should the balance shaft be repaired? Sorry for all the questions, i'm new to watch repairs.

Thanks,
Thuc
 

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What you're looking at is a parts donor watch at best. Broken balance staff, missing back, and the entire auto winding module (rotor assembly) is missing. Oh, and the dial is an old and poorly done repaint job.
 

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Were the early autos a 710 with an added automatic module and a different ratchet wheel?
The 700 and 710 were larger movements, at 10.5 lignes. This thing is a 11.5''' cal. 630, which is a 620 with an indirectly driven sweep second. The base calibre is the hand-wound 600 (9.75''').
Here it is:
bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Rolex 630
As you can see, it's a 600 with an extended baseplate, with the auto winding module mounted right on the top of a basic hand-wound movement. Obviously, the other difference would have been the internal structure of the mainspring barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info on the movement cal. I don't know much about these watches (or any really) but the watch looks complete just missing the correct case back. What was on there was a non rolex case back. The phone photos are terrible at showing the details but the dial if repainted must have been done some time ago. There are lots of crack marks on the clear coat at a certain light angles. The dial lume has burnt through at least the paint layer and it looks like it was non operational for some time stuck at 11:25 from what i assume are lume burn marks? The balance staff is not broken just slightly bent and I'll make an attempt to straighten it over this weekend. The staff pivot is hair thin, needs steady hands hopefully i won't break it. A good clean and i think she should run, fingers cross :)

Has anyone have or seen a manual wind bubble back? do they exist or are all bubble backs automatic?
 

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\
bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Rolex 630
As you can see, it's a 600 with an extended baseplate, with the auto winding module mounted right on the top of a basic hand-wound movement. Obviously, the other difference would have been the internal structure of the mainspring barrel.
Thanks, the ranfft link really shows the details in the photos that show the automatic module being removed in steps - rotor, then module. I see how the OP's watch was stripped of it's original module and then adapted to be a manual. It was obviously originally an automatic.

I know I'm not ready but I really want to work on one of the 630 autos just to see it for myself!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The 700 and 710 were larger movements, at 10.5 lignes. This thing is a 11.5''' cal. 630, which is a 620 with an indirectly driven sweep second. The base calibre is the hand-wound 600 (9.75''').
Here it is:
bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Rolex 630
As you can see, it's a 600 with an extended baseplate, with the auto winding module mounted right on the top of a basic hand-wound movement. Obviously, the other difference would have been the internal structure of the mainspring barrel.

Mainspring barrel
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Does that mean that it is a manual and was not originally an auto?
 

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Mainspring barrel
View attachment 14256323
View attachment 14256325
View attachment 14256327

Does that mean that it is a manual and was not originally an auto?
No, it is an auto (well, was, as the module is missing), based on a hand-winder. The mainspring barrel is different in both - as it usually is in autos and hand-winders. A hand-wound movement will have a certain limit to which you can wind it, and you simply won't be able to turn the barrel further. In an auto, when the mainspring is fully wound, the bridle will slip to the next position (due to the altered structure of the barrel) - otherwise, the constant movement of the rotor would simply cause damage either to the entire auto winding assembly, or to the mainspring.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So this mainspring assembly is manual wound right? and the suggestion is that this was an auto and someone had swapped out the mainspring assembly and the manual winder due to the missing auto module and not that it hadn't been converted to an auto in the first place? I've only been playing with watches for a few months so everything is new :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I did manage some time in between taxiing kids to clean movement a little, straighten the staff and put it all back..

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A couple of light strokes of the tweezer and she looked straight enough


buy some time for the mate to look for a replacement staff or look for the auto conversion... and a proper case back :).
 

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So this mainspring assembly is manual wound right? and the suggestion is that this was an auto and someone had swapped out the mainspring assembly and the manual winder due to the missing auto module and not that it hadn't been converted to an auto in the first place? I've only been playing with watches for a few months so everything is new :)
No, it's that of an auto. Or at least it looks like it. Basically, a modular auto deprived of its rotor assembly CAN work as a hand-winder, if we're talking of movements with a non-detached manual wind. The only difference between that and a hand-winder by design will be that even if the mainspring is fully wound, you won't feel any resistance when it's fully wound, because the bridle will simply slide on and on.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I know what you mean but this mainspring and barrel is not auto (stops fully wound) so bolting on the auto assembly without changing it would damage the auto mech. Maybe down the track when I open up the 1945 3372 my father gave me I can take a pic of the barrel and compare the auto to this :)
 

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I know what you mean but this mainspring and barrel is not auto (stops fully wound) so bolting on the auto assembly without changing it would damage the auto mech. Maybe down the track when I open up the 1945 3372 my father gave me I can take a pic of the barrel and compare the auto to this :)
That'd mean that the barrel and the spring have indeed been replaced with those of a hand-wound base movement. Maybe the rotor assembly went wrong, there were no parts for it, and someone simply did something of a "conversion" with the parts they could get their hands on.
 

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If you managed to straighten that staff and have only been working on watches a few months then congratulations are in order! I've tried straightening a few old Rolex staffs and have never had any luck.
 

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There were some automatic movements that have the same barrel and spring as a manual, e.g. the later versions of the Otero 48 which has an excentre winding mechanism - maybe that has something to do with it. It all depends to what extent the energy of the rotor can be diverted once the mainspring is fully wound.

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Otero 48

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If you managed to straighten that staff and have only been working on watches a few months then congratulations are in order! I've tried straightening a few old Rolex staffs and have never had any luck.

Thanks for the encouragement MoreWatches, maybe only because this one had a slight bend. I learnt quick to be gentle after I destroyed another mate's 1926 Rolex replacement balance staff and had to get a replacement for the replacement staff. Lucky it was a cheap mistake. I do have a big stuff up that I will post soon for assistance ;-)



There were some automatic movements that have the same barrel and spring as a manual, e.g. the later versions of the Otero 48 which has an excentre winding mechanism - maybe that has something to do with it. It all depends to what extent the energy of the rotor can be diverted once the mainspring is fully wound.

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Otero 48

Hartmut Richter
Good point, maybe the auto mechanism is designed to "slip" upon fully wounded mainspring hence no need to replace the manual wind mainspring/barrel. Makes me want to take my bubble back out for a peek at how the auto mech works :)
 
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