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The GS but only if you can get a time-only variant. Otherwise I think the date window in the GS is too large and distracting.
 
Value retention ≠ quality ≠ luxury. GS was limited to the Asian market up until recently so yes I agree it is not well known. But the desire for brand recognition is a personal factor which does not affect the objective quality of the watch. Don't get me wrong I'd pick a Rolex over modern GS (at least until GS decides to fix the bracelets and make watches that aren't unnecessarily thick), but your inability to differentiate the different tiers of watches that Seiko produces seems to be the problem.

Seiko = low end
GS = luxury
Credor = luxury and some models (from their masterpiece line) are haute horlogerie.
IMHO, Seiko should have branded the Grand Seiko under a different brand name like Toyota and Nissan did with Lexus and Infinity.

If Toyota and Nissan decided to make an US$ 80,000 sedan car for the USA market, I would not consider it a luxury car.
 
IMHO, Seiko should have branded the Grand Seiko under a different brand name like Toyota and Nissan did with Lexus and Infinity.

If Toyota and Nissan decided to make an US$ 80,000 sedan car for the USA market, I would not consider it a luxury car.
I'm not a car guy, but does that mean you don't consider the Nissan GTR a luxury car? Personally the name association doesn't bother me, but evidently it does bother others.
 
IMHO, Seiko should have branded the Grand Seiko under a different brand name like Toyota and Nissan did with Lexus and Infinity.

If Toyota and Nissan decided to make an US$ 80,000 sedan car for the USA market, I would not consider it a luxury car.
Why do you keeping insisting on using car analogies when you have limited interest in anything but brands? If you cannot understand why a Toyota Century is a luxury car, just because it's a Toyota, then there's little left that needs discussing. IMHO it doesn't get any clearer that you are neither a car enthusiast nor a watch enthusiast, but rather a brand enthusiast. Nothing wrong with that, but in which case no need to drag other hobbies into it; it's along that same line as saying "if China decides to make a $80,000 Product X, I would not consider it a luxury Product X [because it's China]". If I was a brand enthusiast, yes, GS will likely never surpass Rolex. But they probably weren't so concern with such brand 'snobbery' when they were established as a brand 60 years ago.
 
Hilarious and predictable. Also, OP joined 2 days ago and has 14 posts. It's not a coincidence that this was posted. It's a textbook troll post.

I clicked on it knowing each side's arguments immediately. The following arguments were presented and will be presented until either each brand is defunct or no longer produces these pieces:

  • Rolex is better because it's better
  • Rolex has brand presence and a richer history
  • Rolex is a better value
  • Rolex has better finishing
  • I like the design of the Rolex more, thus Rolex is the better choice for everyone
  • Grand Seiko has crap bracelets
  • Grand Seiko is an expensive Seiko, why would you spend that much on a Seiko?
  • SD is quartz. I don't care what technical, mechanical explanation you give! I'm entitled to my opinion, despite being technically incorrect.
  • Car analogies to completely lopsided and ludicrous models e.g. troll supreme with the 911 vs Camry.
  • PR indicator bad, send a tissue my way pronto
  • GS is a better value
  • GS finishing is supreme
  • SD is heavenly
  • I like the design of the GS more, thus GS is better choice for everyone

These arguments and points have and will be made forever. We all know them. Rehashing them in another bout won't magically make them go away. Another worthless conversation started by a troll.

FWIW: GS all day, every day FOR ME. If the Rolex does it for you great, but don't use ridiculous justifications for it. You like it more you want it more, leave it at that and enjoy it. There's no need to belittle someone's preference in favor of your own.
 
I'm not a car guy, but does that mean you don't consider the Nissan GTR a luxury car? Personally the name association doesn't bother me, but evidently it does bother others.
Yeah, I drive. KIA Stinger GTS. I can not tell you how many times I have been asked about it when parked or given thumbs up on the road. When I tell them its a KiA, most of the time, they have to pick up their jaw ;-)
 
wow another great this or that watch thread. honestly another tie for me.

I've seen both up close and both are stunning. If you get either honestly you can't go wrong. I do think if you get the snowflake with gold indices that would be f*****g proper - absolute beauty.

That being said the OP41 in sunburst blue is a stone cold stunner (like Steve Austin)!

The tie breaker here would be the value OP will retain v the GS.
 
The level of finishing between a Grand Seiko and a Rolex aren't comparable and I find it hard to believe even the biggest Rolex fanboy in the world could in good faith argue otherwise.
IDK about that. the GS has fantastic finishing, etc. But the Submariner is one of the most well built watches I've ever handled/worn
 
Hilarious and predictable.

I clicked on it knowing each side's arguments immediately. The following arguments were presented and will be presented until either each brand is defunct or no longer produces these pieces:

  • Rolex is better because it's better
  • Rolex has brand presence and a richer history
  • Rolex is a better value
  • Rolex has better finishing
  • I like the design of the Rolex more, thus Rolex is the better choice for everyone
  • Grand Seiko has crap bracelets
  • Grand Seiko is an expensive Seiko, why would you spend that much on a Seiko?
  • SD is quartz. I don't care what technical, mechanical explanation you give! I'm entitled to my opinion, despite being technically incorrect.
  • Car analogies to completely lopsided and ludicrous models e.g. troll supreme with the 911 vs Camry.
  • PR indicator bad, send a tissue my way pronto
  • GS is a better value
  • GS finishing is supreme
  • SD is heavenly
  • I like the design of the GS more, thus GS is better choice for everyone

These arguments and points have and will be made forever. We all know them. Rehashing them in another bout won't magically make them go away. Another worthless conversation started by a troll.

FWIW: GS all day, every day FOR ME. If the Rolex does it for you great, but don't use ridiculous justifications for it. You like it more you want it more, leave it at that and enjoy it.
+1. Reiterating what I had said earlier, all it takes is a small group of people who feel the need to put down others just because it's not what they like or understand. I like Brand X, but I don't go around on a high horse to [pick any brand], making statements like "Brand X, It is like asking would you rather have a Porsche 911 Carrera for a Toyota Camry." That statement was absolutely made with ill-intention, and there's absolutely no need to put anyone down for choosing what they choose, especially when, as as the case here, they are both equally great choices, just for different people.
 
Truth in your post but...
  • SD is quartz. I don't care what technical, mechanical explanation you give! I'm entitled to my opinion, despite being technically incorrect
There is no technical explanation possible for considering it mechanical. It has a computer chip in it, along with a quartz regulator. Game, set, match.

Thank you to Worn and Wound for the picture!

 
Don't quartz movements require batteries? Pretty sure the GS has no batteries.
No they do not require batteries. Only a source of electricity. The trick of the GS is to use the spring-barrel energy storage mechanism to run a glide wheel and stator as a small generator to produce the needed electricity.

Seiko Kinetic is another example of battery-less quartz. Tissot Autoquartz also.
 
There is no technical explanation possible for considering it mechanical. It has a computer chip in it, along with a quartz regulator. Game, set, match.
It's a quartz-regulated mechanical movement. It has a mechanical gear-train for winding and a main-spring for power storage. Mechanical energy is converted into an electrical power and the quartz regulation is made through an IC and crystal oscillator combined with a magnetic brake.

Many people that don't understand the movement like to cheapen it by calling it a quartz and comparing it to a Timex quartz movement, for instance. The same people don't understand the mechanical nature of the 9F from GS or comparable options from Citizen.

I'd offer my final, closing point: It's pretty suspect that the 9R Spring Drive movement has 50 jewels for a quartz watch, right? Given that synthetic rubies in mechanical movements are used in places to reduce mechanical friction between pieces and all...

15579246


@sdiver68 no one is discounting the quartz regulation and IC, but this reminds me a bit of witch burning in the Salem trials trying to point it out in the way that you have.

Here's a nice picture of this as well.

15579262


And more of the quartz, electronic battery-powered hateful elements that you describe.

15579265
 
@sdiver68 no one is discounting the quartz regulation and IC, but this reminds me a bit of witch burning in the Salem trials trying to point it out in the way that you have.

Here's a nice picture of this as well.
Good post and we both understand how it works. My motorcycles have stators in them as well.

The biggest problem as we both see it apparently is quartz has such a negative connotation that many Spring Drive lovers try to hide the fact that it's a quartz regulated computer controlled movement.
 
Good post and we both understand how it works.

The biggest problem as I see it is quartz has such a negative connotation that Spring Drive lovers try to hide the fact that it's a quartz regulated computer controlled movement.
I don't think anyone tries to hide that fact, it just isn't the main focus for most people. Even if I hypothetically agree with your semantics, you clearly understand not all quartz are created equal. I, for one, would not place an F.P. Journe Elegante in the same rank and file as a Casio calculator watch, and judging by market price/demand for the Elegante, most collectors/Haute Horlogerie-enthusiasts would agree. Along the same line, one of the most established watch brands have invested decades of R&D into creating a new movement, it's worthy of some respect and dignity than, "It's just a quartz".
 
Good post and we both understand how it works.

The biggest problem as we both see it apparently is quartz has such a negative connotation that many Spring Drive lovers try to hide the fact that it's a quartz regulated computer controlled movement.
I think that's what makes it so awesome. Cause you get the accuracy of a quartz while also having the benefits of a mechanical. The fact that those two things can combine makes it great technology and never having to switch out a battery for that accuracy is awesome.
 
Good post and we both understand how it works.

The biggest problem as I see it is quartz has such a negative connotation that Spring Drive lovers try to hide the fact that it's a quartz regulated computer controlled movement.
No one is trying to hide it. Moreover, I see those that talk down on SD to be uninformed and they like to zero in on an electrical component that is, at its root, still powered by mechanical energy. No one is, or should be, claiming that SD is a purely mechanical watch. But it's phenomenally mechanical and the electro-mechanical system that's vilified (because electronics of any type are the devil?) is fundamentally different than employed with cheap quartz or even high-end quartz movements as @kritameth has also pointed out.
 
No one is trying to hide it. Moreover, I see those that talk down on SD to be uninformed and they like to zero in on an electrical component that is, at its root, still powered by mechanical energy. No one is, or should be, claiming that SD is a purely mechanical watch. But it's phenomenally mechanical and the electro-mechanical system that's vilified (because electronics of any type are the devil?) is fundamentally different than employed with cheap quartz or even high-end quartz movements as @kritameth has also pointed out.
True and my initial post was in regards to claims on accuracy of SD vs Rolex calibers. My point remains that adding computer control to almost anything makes it more accurate so it's not fair to compare a mechcnical watch and Spring Drive without mentioning the quartz and computer.

Hey, at least I haven't delved into the myths of Zarutsu polishing ;)
 
As many know, as a comparison, GS 9R movement is ±1 second per day / ±15 seconds per month (average). This, when combined with the quality of the finishing that @Dietly mentioned, makes me choose a GS six days a week and twice on Sunday.
A 9R movement relies critically on quartz regulation for its accuracy, and the +/- 15 spm accuracy is pretty standard (and not at all surprising) for a quartz regulated movement. It's an impressive movement, primarily because of its ability to construct a hybrid movement that has electronics with such low power consumption, but not because of its accuracy.
 
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No one is trying to hide it. Moreover, I see those that talk down on SD to be uninformed and they like to zero in on an electrical component that is, at its root, still powered by mechanical energy. No one is, or should be, claiming that SD is a purely mechanical watch. But it's phenomenally mechanical and the electro-mechanical system that's vilified (because electronics of any type are the devil?) is fundamentally different than employed with cheap quartz or even high-end quartz movements as @kritameth has also pointed out.
It's equally ignorant to think that the accuracy of a Spring Drive movement is what is impressive about it.
 
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