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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all,

I need some assistance please.

I currently own an Omega Planet Ocean, a Breitling Chronomat 44 and a Breitling Navitimer Rose Gold, but I'm now ready to delve into the forum of true, high end luxury pieces.

My brother in laws wedding is coming up and I think it's the perfect opportunity to pick up a beautiful dress watch. I'm torn between the Lange Saxonia Automatik Rose Gold, the VC Patrimony Traditionelle Small Seconds Rose gold and a Patek Calatrava. (Possibly 5196r or 5227r)

Here's my dilemma. I'd obviously love a patek but I feel I'd be buying purely for the name and the idea of it. Although I love the Calatrava line, I really think there are better looking pieces with VC and Lange. The Vacheron is so beautiful and 4400 movement t is incredible and I love the arched print of the lange which reminds me of a grandfather clock on my wrist. Classic and refined.

Please help, your opinions are greatly appreciated.
 

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Hello all,

I need some assistance please.

I currently own an Omega Planet Ocean, a Breitling Chronomat 44 and a Breitling Navitimer Rose Gold, but I'm now ready to delve into the forum of true, high end luxury pieces.

My brother in laws wedding is coming up and I think it's the perfect opportunity to pick up a beautiful dress watch. I'm torn between the Lange Saxonia Automatik Rose Gold, the VC Patrimony Traditionelle Small Seconds Rose gold and a Patek Calatrava. (Possibly 5196r or 5227r)

Here's my dilemma. I'd obviously love a patek but I feel I'd be buying purely for the name and the idea of it. Although I love the Calatrava line, I really think there are better looking pieces with VC and Lange. The Vacheron is so beautiful and 4400 movement t is incredible and I love the arched print of the lange which reminds me of a grandfather clock on my wrist. Classic and refined.

Please help, your opinions are greatly appreciated.
Wow...that's very nice of you to buy any one of these watches for your brother in law. (I assume you are doing that because you mentioned him in the first place, and you mentioned him instead of saying your [insert relevant sibling]'s wedding....BTW, how is this guy your brother in law and the wedding to your sibling is upcoming? If the answer is that the fellow married one of your siblings who later passed on and now he's marrying another of your siblings, okay...I don't need to know more; that scenario alone is odd enough.)

As for your dilemma, I guess if you feel you'd be buying the PP for the name, I'll take your word for it. I will also say that actions that result from ill advised causes can sometimes still yield positive results. I'm fairly certain that your brother in law won't be disappointed with a PP. You won't either. <wink>

Of the watches you identified, I prefer the 5227. I feel that from the standpoint of the overall ownership experience, the PP is by far the easier watch to live with. Its styling is suitable for damn near anything you want to wear it for, be it dressy or casual. It's engineering is first rate and PP's use of the silicon parts in the movement reduce friction, thus lengthening the time span before one needs to replace worn parts.

There's nothing particularly wrong with the other two watches, and between them, I'd go with the VC. The reason is that for one's first foray into HEWs, unless I know the person to be familiar with the peculiarities of the HEW experience, I will always recommend the watch that requires the least input from the owner. In this case it's the PP, followed by the VC and then the ALS.

The other reason I suggest the watches as I have -- PP, VC, and then ALS -- is that I firmly believe in buying from a maker that at which they excel. All three makers are more than sufficiently capable of making a fine, simple watch such as you are seeking, so one must look to something else.

  • In VC's case, it's art and high style watches. Any such watch from VC will essentially have the same movement as the Patrimony.
  • In PP's case, it's grand complications.
  • In ALS's case, it's also complicated watches, and in particular the Lange 1 is "the" ALS to get, IMO, as it's the one that put ALS on the map.
As I've said to others asking questions similar to yours, you may need to consider your future buying plans rather than your past ones in order to know which watch is the best choice for now.

If you are a collector like me, one who buys only uncomplicated watches, it's just a matter of which one to buy now and which to buy later; there's no real dilemma. I put off buying a VC for a long time because I wanted a stylish one rather than Patrimony and the stylish ones cost more and I didn't want to spend that much at any time sooner than I did. I have yet to buy an ALS Saxonia because of the servicing factors that I'm not of a mind to deal with at this point in my life and because I know the Lange 1 is the "the" one to get, but I don't particularly like the Lange 1, and though I may buy a Speedy just to have a chrono in my collection, I will not spend ALS money "just to have" an ALS in my collection.

All the best.

It's not hard to make decisions when you know what your values are.
― Roy Disney
 
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Wow...that's very nice of you to buy any one of these watches for your brother in law. (I assume you are doing that because you mentioned him in the first place, and you mentioned him instead of saying your [insert relevant sibling]'s wedding....BTW, how is this guy your brother in law and the wedding to your sibling is upcoming? If the answer is that the fellow married one of your siblings who later passed on and now he's marrying another of your siblings, okay...I don't need to know more; that scenario alone is odd enough.)
LOL.

I did also wonder why the OP phrased the event as his "brother-in-law's wedding" instead of his "sister's wedding"...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry, to clarify:

The brother in law in question is my wife's brother who is marrying his long term gf and the purchase is for me to wear on the day with a 3 piece suit.

This is the excuse I've been waiting for to splurge on a watch!

Thanks for the info, much obliged! Please keep it coming gents.
 

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Have you seen this article? []Squarespace - Please Stand By

The comparison omits the Calatrava in favour of the F.P. Journe Chronometre Bleu as they'd set a $20,000 ceiling for the article,

although you can get the PP for just over this it wouldn't have the sapphire back if this is important to you, nevertheless very interesting.

please ignore post, beaten to it!
 

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LOL.

I did also wonder why the OP phrased the event as his "brother-in-law's wedding" instead of his "sister's wedding"...
Off Topic:
I wondered that too and figured that perhaps it's his brother who is getting married and he didn't want to share that piece of information given the controversy that doing so might cause. It's why I wrote my post in as gender-neutral a manner as I could.

All the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Off Topic:
I wondered that too and figured that perhaps it's his brother who is getting married and he didn't want to share that piece of information given the controversy that doing so might cause. It's why I wrote my post in as gender-neutral a manner as I could.

All the best.
Lol! Guys, see my post above, it's my wife's brother getting married, (my brother in law)

The watch is for me to wear to his wedding!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You should expand your choices, the usual suspects that you are bringing up might give you a smile now but don't know about long term.







Good luck !


Sent from the 3 Watches Philosophy Company headquarters

I'm not particularly interested in the Journe or the Aquanaut, but the 5146 is amazing. Do you own that?

In my grand scheme I'd like to buy a complicated PP, which is why I'm shying away in the dress watch category. This year a VC or ALS and next year a complicated PP.

What's your opinion on the 5146 above vs the 5205?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Have you seen this article? []Squarespace - Please Stand By

The comparison omits the Calatrava in favour of the F.P. Journe Chronometre Bleu as they'd set a $20,000 ceiling for the article,

although you can get the PP for just over this it wouldn't have the sapphire back if this is important to you, nevertheless very interesting.

please ignore post, beaten to it!
If it had included the PP, would you favour the PP 5196 over the VC and the ALS?
 

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Lol! Guys, see my post above, it's my wife's brother getting married, (my brother in law)

The watch is for me to wear to his wedding!
That hadn't crossed my mind. That's obviously and most simplistically it, of course. LOL.

Clearly my brain doesn't always fire on all cylinders. <wink> My mistake.

All the best.

PS
I'd yesterday read a news story about gay marriage because I'm not altogether certain my youngest son won't at some point "come out"...heck, he may already have done so with others, and my daughter is recently engaged, so those two/three things governed the direction of my thinking. I had brothers in law, but never a blood related sibling, and as I'm now divorced from their sister, they don't feature prominently in my mind.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That hadn't crossed my mind. That's obviously and most simplistically it, of course. LOL.

Clearly my brain doesn't always fire on all cylinders. <wink> My mistake.

All the best.

PS
I'd yesterday read a news story about gay marriage because I'm not altogether certain my youngest son won't at some point "come out"...heck, he may already have done so with others, and my daughter is recently engaged, so those two/three things governed the direction of my thinking. I had brothers in law, but never a blood related sibling, and as I'm now divorced from their sister, they don't feature prominently in my mind.
Lol, no problem Tony. I have a cousin who recently "Came out", it's not the same as it used to be, there's a lot less bigotry and infinitely more acceptance. In any case, I disgress!

I noticed you own a PP Calatrava Tony. Do you mind me asking which type?
 

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Lol, no problem Tony. I have a cousin who recently "Came out", it's not the same as it used to be, there's a lot less bigotry and infinitely more acceptance. In any case, I disgress!

I noticed you own a PP Calatrava Tony. Do you mind me asking which type?
3520. Essentially it's a manual wind 5120, albeit smaller in diameter; it's just slightly larger than a pound sterling coin or US quarter.

Off Topic:
Yes...I'd just as soon he get it over with and do so, mainly so we can all move past it. I don't really care if he's gay or not; I just want him to be happy healthy, successful and safe. I have long said/felt that I don't care if a person is gay or not unless they want to sleep with me.

The best laid plans of mice and men... LOL Maybe my having said that is why he's not said anything. LOL. My efforts to profess my open mindedness about it may be why he doesn't think anything needs to be said, and I must admit there's plenty of merit to his thinking that way about it as far as his telling me is concerned. LOL



All the best.

Edit:
I only wear that watch to formal events. I feel the hobnail bezel, Roman numerals and black and white face make the watch super dressy, more dressy than the clothing I'd wear on a regular basis to work or typical social events.
 

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If you buy the ALS or the VC then please buy used. They both lose about 40% of their value after being bought new. The PP will lose a bit but in 10 to 20 years you would get your money back.

If resale isn't an issue then pick the one that you like the look of best.

(Note - Resale is always an issue with me as I cannot justify buying things that lose 40% to 50% of their value regardless that I don't sell my watches. And why buy something new for $30,000, that will quickly become used and be worth $15,000, when you could have bought it used for $15,000 in the first place?)
 

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I'm not particularly interested in the Journe or the Aquanaut, but the 5146 is amazing. Do you own that?

In my grand scheme I'd like to buy a complicated PP, which is why I'm shying away in the dress watch category. This year a VC or ALS and next year a complicated PP.

What's your opinion on the 5146 above vs the 5205?
In the moment you are shying away in the dress watch category, that's when the Journe and Aquanaut come into the plate but if you don't like them period, then I understand completely. Let me explain a couple of thoughts that might help.
IMHO unless you are really deep into dress watches, they don't have too much wrist time (at least on me). There are people that are really passionate about dress watches and to them makes perfect sense an investment of 25k or more on this kind of watches. But if you are like me that you might wear it once a week and pushing it then its not very wise to put that much money in a watch you won't wear that often. True in the beginning there is a honeymoon phase that but it will wear off eventually.
That's why I recommended the Aquanaut and the Journe; these are not strict watches, these are versatiles watches that can be dress up or down and that you won't get bored of them.
The photo of the Journe and the Patek 5146g are mine, needless to say they are both gone now.
Between the 5146g and the 5205R, I obviously favor the 5205R, that I currently own.
Positives on the 5205R:
*prefer the larger case (40mm)
*Looks elegant and modern
*Display the calendar in windows, easier to read

Positives on the 5146G:
*Luminous Material Present
*Power Reserve indication
*Direct Sucesor of the 1st annual calendar






Sent from the 3 Watches Philosophy Company headquarters
 

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If you buy the ALS or the VC then please buy used. They both lose about 40% of their value after being bought new. The PP will lose a bit but in 10 to 20 years you would get your money back.

If resale isn't an issue then pick the one that you like the look of best.

(Note - Resale is always an issue with me as I cannot justify buying things that lose 40% to 50% of their value regardless that I don't sell my watches. And why buy something new for $30,000, that will quickly become used and be worth $15,000, when you could have bought it used for $15,000 in the first place?)
Did not know that ALS depreciated that much...thought they held better value closer to PP?
I am aware of VC losing value, as most watches do.
Totally agree, buying preowned can save quite a bit.


Sent from my 16M
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Did not know that ALS depreciated that much...thought they held better value closer to PP?
I am aware of VC losing value, as most watches do.
Totally agree, buying preowned can save quite a bit.


Sent from my 16M
I'd be inclined to agree with Plastique in terms of the value of Lange. ALS (IMHO) has been cheated out of it's 'holy trinity' status by it's Germanic roots and could easily take up a 2nd position in the pecking order after PP.

I think the order should be
1. Patek Philippe
2. A. Lange & Söhne
3. Audemars Piguet
4. Vacheron Constantin

My opinion changes between 3 & 4 depending on my mood.
 

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Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough but I find most high-end watches on sale in the used market are seldom of the entry-level variety.

Take for example the ALS and VC models the OP mentioned. I too take a fancy to the Saxonia and the Patrimony Traditionelle, but find they do not crop up on the resale block often, if at all. Their more complicated and more pricey brethren however, appear rather frequently. This is despite the fact that ALS and VC would have sold many more "simple" Saxonias and Patrimony Traditionelles than say, Datographs or Patrimony Perpetual Calendars.

I'm guessing purveyors of high-end pieces hold onto their Calatravas and such because offloading them does not boost cashflow significantly enough to warrant going through the hassle of the resale process, compared to liquidating a Datograph.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough but I find most high-end watches on sale in the used market are seldom of the entry-level variety.

Take for example the ALS and VC models the OP mentioned. I too take a fancy to the Saxonia and the Patrimony Traditionelle, but find they do not crop up on the resale block often, if at all. Their more complicated and more pricey brethren however, appear rather frequently. This is despite the fact that ALS and VC would have sold many more "simple" Saxonias and Patrimony Traditionelles than say, Datographs or Patrimony Perpetual Calendars.

I'm guessing purveyors of high-end pieces hold onto their Calatravas and such because offloading them does not boost cashflow significantly enough to warrant going through the hassle of the resale process, compared to liquidating a Datograph.
That's an interesting point. It does tend to be the more complicated pieces that find their way to sale, although this could indicate the basic need for 1 good dress watch and the relative luxury of more complicated pieces. Also it could indicate the fact that it's not as feasible for most people to own more than one 50k plus watch, so they're substituted rather than accumulated.

In saying that, I found this one ad for a VC Pat. Trad Small seconds that has been sold already but the list price is encouraging for VC.

TimeZone : TZ Showcase » FS: LNIB Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionnelle Small Seconds

It really depends on what it actually went for I suppose
 
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