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Er, I always thought that's why it was called the Sumo!
SBDC007 and SBDC009 just released! <<
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Why do I suddenly have images of a fat turkey wearing a loin cloth? I am hungry and unsettled all at the same time.
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410 Posts
I pretty much share the same sentiment as everybody else.
However, just to set the facts right, does anybody know what is the actual cost of this diashield treatment? If it is hugely expensive that may explain the cost.
The hands are still ugly IMO. :think:
However, just to set the facts right, does anybody know what is the actual cost of this diashield treatment? If it is hugely expensive that may explain the cost.
The hands are still ugly IMO. :think:
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10,224 Posts
In my best Dr Evil voice:
"1 MILLION dollars!!!"*
* The above statement may or may not be true. But I believe the treatment is unlikely to cost $US500!!!
"1 MILLION dollars!!!"*
* The above statement may or may not be true. But I believe the treatment is unlikely to cost $US500!!!
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5,086 Posts
yup
OS300 is above the league of my 2 Sumo and my 3 Samurai
i prefer OS300 than SBDC007/9 since OS300 is much cheaper
it is helium dive, it is huge, it has power reserve, dead accurate, and build quality is incredible
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I want an OS300 bad. Where is it cheaper than the SBDC007? OS300 is US$1200 at Chino.
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OS 300 is 850 $ in my place
if I bought SBDC 007 it cost 950$, plus 20 % goverment tax
killing me
OS 300 is 1300 $ but 35 % discount, i pay 850 flat hahahaha
i choose OS300
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35,399 Posts
+1 on that. The Sumo is an incredible watch.
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3,257 Posts
This is where you and I split, my friend. First off, not even the SBDB001 Marinemaster sports this sort of protection, as far as I can tell. While the Marinemaster does use the Brightz Ti (which is 30% harder than SS), it is not married with Seiko's version of DLC, Diashield. To get these two together in a diver, you are talking Grand Seiko. And from what I can tell, the step from SS to Brightz/Diashield in the Grand Seiko costs you about $1000.
Funny, the deeper I dive to defend my opinion of the technology Seiko is using to finish and protech this piece, the more I think it really is fairly priced. Thanks everyone for convincing me of what a bargain it is to actually find this watch at under 1K.
You can call it the "Turkey" if you like. Considering it's full battle armor, crisper lines and the fact that it always seems to be under attack, I will be calling it the SHOGUN!
Any chance I can get a custom caseback? I want this on mine:
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111 Posts
as this announcement spun me off into a purchase of an SDBA001, I guess I could chime in.
I honestly think the metal treatment potentially justifies up to half the price point shift. If it really works out and creates a much more durrable Ti piece, then maybe things will work themselves out.
Sure, the timing is rather bad for Seiko to move a trio of timepieces up market, this also isn't the first time a mistake like this has been made by a Japanese company. I'd like to think they know something we don't, but more likely, it was just a matter of momentum. Launches like this had to have been planned and ready for 1-3 years.
Going back to the watch and why I made my decision. I realized after a month with a heavier SS diver that I was 1. okay with a larger watch and 2. kind of missing a slightly smaller weight. I've really liked titanium in almost every product I've experienced its use in. I carry Ti Atwood tools, use Ti and Al links in places on my EDC, I've worn Ti glass frames since they came out. The metal is just right for me.
However, in my case, the intended price of a new "Shogun" is just out of my range. I'd been saving a purchase of that magnitude for a used Speedie or SMP/PO. Or a 300MM. So, I jumped now, to get a watch I was interested in on paper and curious about. (I'd never seen one in person. I recommend it. ) Time will tell if it was the right decision.
Posters above are right. The Samurai line is now a classic. It was novel, functional and affordable. This new offspin has elements of the first two, but misses the third point. (Okay, by a lot.) I think only time will tell where it goes and what niche it finally finds as stock of those these replace vanish.
If they'd release it globally a year later, I could see this acting as a lever to put some other watch brand lovers in touch with what Seiko does.
Meanwhile, we still have our classics. And we still have that possibility for a 6309 reissue/revival.
I honestly think the metal treatment potentially justifies up to half the price point shift. If it really works out and creates a much more durrable Ti piece, then maybe things will work themselves out.
Sure, the timing is rather bad for Seiko to move a trio of timepieces up market, this also isn't the first time a mistake like this has been made by a Japanese company. I'd like to think they know something we don't, but more likely, it was just a matter of momentum. Launches like this had to have been planned and ready for 1-3 years.
Going back to the watch and why I made my decision. I realized after a month with a heavier SS diver that I was 1. okay with a larger watch and 2. kind of missing a slightly smaller weight. I've really liked titanium in almost every product I've experienced its use in. I carry Ti Atwood tools, use Ti and Al links in places on my EDC, I've worn Ti glass frames since they came out. The metal is just right for me.
However, in my case, the intended price of a new "Shogun" is just out of my range. I'd been saving a purchase of that magnitude for a used Speedie or SMP/PO. Or a 300MM. So, I jumped now, to get a watch I was interested in on paper and curious about. (I'd never seen one in person. I recommend it. ) Time will tell if it was the right decision.
Posters above are right. The Samurai line is now a classic. It was novel, functional and affordable. This new offspin has elements of the first two, but misses the third point. (Okay, by a lot.) I think only time will tell where it goes and what niche it finally finds as stock of those these replace vanish.
If they'd release it globally a year later, I could see this acting as a lever to put some other watch brand lovers in touch with what Seiko does.
Meanwhile, we still have our classics. And we still have that possibility for a 6309 reissue/revival.
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3,257 Posts
I think the previous poster has great points. If you are looking at this as a Samurai or Sumo replacement, how can you help but feel disappointed? Those are both great watches at affordable prices. I can see that. At 1K, you are moving into the big leagues when it comes to choices.
I think my point is that I look at this watch and am glad to see Seiko drive a superior finish and protection technique down from the GS line to at least approach affordable. I can't think of another watch, Swiss, Japanese or other, to sell sub-1K with similar protection and durablility. Add in a 6r15, which I hold in high esteem as a movement, and I think it works.
Definitely not for everyone and I also am not crazy about the recycled monster hands. Still, I think the Shogun is getting an undeservedly bad rep.
I think my point is that I look at this watch and am glad to see Seiko drive a superior finish and protection technique down from the GS line to at least approach affordable. I can't think of another watch, Swiss, Japanese or other, to sell sub-1K with similar protection and durablility. Add in a 6r15, which I hold in high esteem as a movement, and I think it works.
Definitely not for everyone and I also am not crazy about the recycled monster hands. Still, I think the Shogun is getting an undeservedly bad rep.
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I like the looks of the watch (even the hands) regardless of what the price is and other opinions are. $1000 is expensive when comparing it to the sumo, however, I can only say this based on pictures since I own neither. And that is not a very good basis to judge
One correction cubbie on something you stated: Dia-sheild is Seikos version of "Duratect," not DLC. I've owned both dia-sheild and duratect and duratect/DLC watches and they are very scratch resistant. Personally I wish all watches had a scratch treatment as long as it did not disrupt the appearance of the metal used.
In my experience Citizens Duratect is less vulnerable to scratches the Seiko's Dia-sheild, but dia is no slouch. I guess for me, since I have owned a sub $450 dia-sheild treated watch (SBQJ015), albeit quartz, I am trying to rationalize the $1000 price, but here's the thing: if you like the watch and can afford it, that is all that matters.....get it and post some great pics so we all can enjoy it with you
My friend GeorgeRado has a yellow OS 300 and it is a beast of a watch. I actually find the bracelet to be a nice piece and it has the same diver's extension system the MM does. At this price point the OS 300 is hard to resist.
My problem with the "SHOGUN" (or whatever it will end up being called) is primarily with the hands. Why couldn't they have used the beautiful hands of the Ti Samurai or Sumo? The rest of the watch is really beautiful.
The hands though ugh... No way am I going to spend this much on a watch and then pay more to swap the hands; especially since I tend to like my watches original.:think:
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I just wish they would make it with a blue dial and a better looking set of hands.
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Would you care to share???
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I have been looking into this statement to clarify, and I have failed to do so. I have seen references calling Diashield Seiko's proprietary form of DLC but I also have seen it compared to Duratect. I would love a definitive answer on this. Could you provide a source on this? or can anyone help clarify? Either way, I have read good things about the Brightz/Diashield combo....but would love to clear the subject.
As for the hands...yeah, I am not crazy about them. Still, I do find it odd that, while praised on the monster, they are loathed on this watch. Other brands share hands freely between models, without such contempt.
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Whatever it is, I am yet to eb convinced that the process costs Seiko $500!
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And a Sumo doesn't cost $400 more to produce than a G-shock. There are development costs for any technology that have to be recuperated. I think most WIS folks understand that the slight upgrades get costlier the more you get into the hobby. Does the Sumo cost Seiko $300 more than a Monster to produce?
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That's a good point, and I know that my opinion of how much an added feature is worth is subjective. Personally, the Monster and Sumo seem like very different watches to me. The SBDC007 just doesn't seem to offer much more than the SBDA to me, and has in fact become a lot less distinctive and desirable in some ways. I have been disheartened by the release of the new Tunas too, I feel like Seiko is positioning itself out of my reach. At this rate I'll only be able to buy one Seiko a year before too long.
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This I gathered from 2 months of research I did last year when looking for my Attesa (Citizen), Oceanus (Casio), and Seiko dia-sheild watches I once owned and have since sold.
Dia-sheild is a treatment/coating applied to the underlying metal (ti mostly, but Seiko has a few SS dia treated watches) that simply raises the 'vickers' scale hardness of the watches surface. It is similar to Citizens Duratect and Casio's white IP (carbide) coatings on top of their titanium. They are all coatings, therefore it's true or complete hardness (all the way through) correlates with the metal that lies beneath.
DLC is 'diamond like carbon,' where in Citizen's case, is applied atop their already treated ti (Duratect) and enhances the hardness even further than Duratect alone. Again it's a coating. DLC is also very slick (forget the term here sorry) and things tend to slip (think teflon) when rubbed against it rather then scrape or scratch.
DLC as far as I know once applied gives the metal a slate black appearance or some say it looks gunmetal color. I think it looks most like the former. I have never seen nor heard of a clear or non-colorized DLC coating.
This is certainly not your definitive answer, but additional knowledge from all my reading :-!. DLC is DLC and it is used by several watchmakers (Casio MRG, Ball, CItizen) among other industry/machinery. There is no generic or equivalent as far as I know.
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