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Now we're talking! I am all about hashing it out so here goes:

First off, I am not exclusively in any watch camp. I have enjoyed Omega, Sinn, Seiko, Breitling, Hamilton, Marathon and others. I have experienced a wide variety of finishes, from affordables to luxury. It is only my opinion, but I am very impressed at the level of finish and protection on this piece. To be fair, I have only ever owned one other titanium piece. It scratched easily and regularly.

As for the 6r15 cult, I guess I am indeed a member. I only have incidental evidence, and I definitely have no method for timing a watch other than noting the sort of accuracy it maintains day to day in my pattern of use. I do have a Valjoux 7750 that keeps +1, but even my COSC Tag with its version of a 2824 was around +4. I know they can be regulated and I know some manufacturers take greater pains than others in doing so. I also know that my past three 6r15's kept either +1 or +2 with no tinkering, no need to open the case. Just a plain old Seiko churning out a tight movement.

You might be right about me swallowin a line on the 25 yr thing. Indeed, I have not owned a Seiko auto movement for that long and am going on what others have said. I will admit I was not speaking from personal experience and will concede that as a point.
I think in general Seiko does a pretty spot on job in the fit and finish department they also tend to be pretty old fashioned and hands on especially in their higher end pieces.

I also think in hindsight that my foul attitude about the 6r15 may just be me looking for problems in my two based on the problems with the two I have fixed.
I also thought I had learned not to dismiss Seikos and Orients just because they were more expensive than I was accustomed to but I did dismiss SBDC outright without really thinking about it!
I'm feeling much better now that I've had some coffee! :-d
I am still suspecious about the 6r15 though!
 

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Love my 6r15, it works great. It certainly keeps good time, so much so that I dont even bother keeping track of my Sumo anymore, at least daily. I wore it for 2 weeks and took it off the other day, it had gained 15 seconds over the 2 weeks when compared to time.gov. Better timekeeper than any of my ETA powered watches, to tell the truth. I dont know how long the accuracy will last but I've had it since August of 08 and it's been great. If that means im part of a cult, then so be it.
 

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...Just cuz it looks like a swiss movement doesn't make it run like one!
Come on, you know better than to say that. The 6r is nothing more than an evolution of the 7s. It's design parameters are very much those of the 7s (longevity, survivability, ease of maintenance) and not ultimate accuracy or ability to be modified (like the obvious Swiss comparison, the eta 2824). This movement is made for a different target and it's comparative performance has nothing to do with it's country of origin. That said I agree with you that in a watch costing $1000, you can find much better swiss calibers than what seiko put into this one.
 

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There is a difference between nonproductive and heated discussion, as long as we can avoid devolving into terrible name calling it's all good, Besides Gabe's spidey sences will tingle before we get out of line!

I just love being the devils advocate! :-d


Keep it going Chris. I love reading dissenting, yet well reasoned posts. I'd hate to see this forum turn into a kool-aid stand, so it's nice to see folks bring something else to the party. So long as well all keep it civil and well reasoned I'm more than happy to cheer you guys on from the sidelines.

 

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Come on, you know better than to say that. The 6r is nothing more than an evolution of the 7s. It's design parameters are very much those of the 7s (longevity, survivability, ease of maintenance) and not ultimate accuracy or ability to be modified (like the obvious Swiss comparison, the eta 2824). This movement is made for a different target and it's comparative performance has nothing to do with it's country of origin. That said I agree with you that in a watch costing $1000, you can find much better swiss calibers than what seiko put into this one.
Not to be argumentive, but wouldn't most watches at the 1K range in a swiss form sport a non-cosc 2824? Stop me if I am wrong, but does the 2824 often land at +2 or +1 out of the box? I have had an Omega 2254 at +7, a Marathon GSAR ($870 new, not nearly as nicely finished and universally worshipped) at +10 out of the box, and a Tag aquaracer with the Calibre 5 (basically Tag's 2824) keeping a stellar +15. I have also had an SBDC003 hit me at +2, an SBDC005 at +1 and now my SBDC007 keeping +2.

Dress it any way you want. I can only go on my own experience, and that experience leads me to put a lot of stock in this incarnation of the 6r15, regardless of what it is a modified form of.

Just my opinion.
 

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Keep it going Chris. I love reading dissenting, yet well reasoned posts. I'd hate to see this forum turn into a kool-aid stand, so it's nice to see folks bring something else to the party. So long as well all keep it civil and well reasoned I'm more than happy to cheer you guys on from the sidelines.

Couldn't agree more. I guess I got rankled when it turned into a series of namecalling on the watch. But hey...nothing wrong with me getting rankled...it is leading into a nice discussion! :-!
 

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While you are correct, whether the 2824 is COSC certified or not does not channge the nature of the movement. By design, the 2824, in its different versions (IIRC there are 3 grade levels right?) is simply made to tighter tolerances than the 6r15. It is also able to be regulated much more precisely than the 6r15. Whether this is actually done or not, is a different story.
 

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I had recently proposed that I, perhaps, have just been extremely lucky with the repeated accuracy of the 6r15. I could understand luck of the draw, if tolerance and regulation are a crapshoot. I was informed others had experienced similar accuracy. I am just not sure how much more I could ask for in a movement. Again, I will disclaim that I am, by no means, any sort of expert. Just a guy noting experiences of watches I have owned.

EDIT: After looking up accuracy for others, it seems that I may be getting a bit luckier than some.
 

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Come on, you know better than to say that. The 6r is nothing more than an evolution of the 7s. It's design parameters are very much those of the 7s (longevity, survivability, ease of maintenance) and not ultimate accuracy or ability to be modified (like the obvious Swiss comparison, the eta 2824). This movement is made for a different target and it's comparative performance has nothing to do with it's country of origin. That said I agree with you that in a watch costing $1000, you can find much better swiss calibers than what seiko put into this one.
It sounds almost like you are dismissing Seiko's ability to make a really good movement in the mid level price range? The 6r15 is clearly more expensive to produce just by design so it should come with matching improved accuracy otherwise what would be the point of a new movement. The 6r has much more in common with their high end movements than with the 7s so it might be a better description to call it a tuned down version of the higher end movements as opposed to an evolution of the 7s. :think:

There is not much in way of big brand mid level watches to compare it to from Europe but there are plenty of low to medium grade 2824 small brands that compete in this market and in the similar price range of between 500 and 1k so (playing devils advocate again) assuming my experience with the 6r is just bad luck or a bad attitude and they really do regularly ship running at +2 +3 (nothing from Europe regularly ships running that well even with cosc papers) the only flaw I can find from the Seiko in this price range is the absence of Sapphire and for that kind of consistent accuracy its' a bargain in this price range even without sapphire. If the Titanium finish really has improved durability then that explains the price increase over the Sumo too. The closest thing I can think of with a gimmicky finish from Europe is the Sinn diver or Damasko both made with super powered submarine steel and in close to the same price range as the SBDC. ;-)

My experience with Swiss movements is pretty much the same as others in here, accuracy is all over the place out of the box but a minute on the timing machine is all it takes to set it in at +2 +3 and not have to think about it again. (I have a cosc SMP that runs like a canal street rolex though and no ammount of adjusting is going to fix it short of sending it back to Omega with a nasty letter attached!)
This seems to suggest that Japan spends more time regulating their movements especially in the higher end pieces but even entry level Orient movements seem to ship remarkably well regulated especially compared to the 7s26 so perhaps they have just figured out how to consistantly regulate them very well durring assembly of the parts...
 

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If the Titanium finish really has improved durability then that explains the price increase over the Sumo too. The closest thing I can think of with a gimmicky finish from Europe is the Sinn diver or Damasko both made with super powered submarine steel and in close to the same price range as the SBDC. ;-)
The first thing I thought of as I explored this watch was Sinn's Tegimenting process. Still, the cheapest Tegimented Sinn on bracelet is around $1750, vs $950 on the SBDC007.
 

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While you are correct, whether the 2824 is COSC certified or not does not channge the nature of the movement. By design, the 2824, in its different versions (IIRC there are 3 grade levels right?) is simply made to tighter tolerances than the 6r15. It is also able to be regulated much more precisely than the 6r15. Whether this is actually done or not, is a different story.
Actually there are 4 grades: Standard, Elaborated, Top and Chronometer :).

I had recently proposed that I, perhaps, have just been extremely lucky with the repeated accuracy of the 6r15. I could understand luck of the draw, if tolerance and regulation are a crapshoot. I was informed others had experienced similar accuracy. I am just not sure how much more I could ask for in a movement. Again, I will disclaim that I am, by no means, any sort of expert. Just a guy noting experiences of watches I have owned.

EDIT: After looking up accuracy for others, it seems that I may be getting a bit luckier than some.
Correct. My experience is the other end of the spec: most of mine (I've had 6 with the 6R) have been around +13-15 per day. But the accuracy is not a complaint from me.

It sounds almost like you are dismissing Seiko's ability to make a really good movement in the mid level price range? The 6r15 is clearly more expensive to produce just by design so it should come with matching improved accuracy otherwise what would be the point of a new movement. The 6r has much more in common with their high end movements than with the 7s so it might be a better description to call it a tuned down version of the higher end movements as opposed to an evolution of the 7s. :think:...
Actually I thought the 7S and the 6R shared something like 60 or 70 percent of their parts.

The first thing I thought of as I explored this watch was Sinn's Tegimenting process. Still, the cheapest Tegimented Sinn on bracelet is around $1750, vs $950 on the SBDC007.
Yes...the more I research just what the SBDC007/9 have to offer, the more I see the value. I think the shock is the initial $1k price tag. Of course...if our currency were doing better...the price would be lower :-d.
 

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My experience is the other end of the spec: most of mine (I've had 6 with the 6R) have been around +13-15 per day. But the accuracy is not a complaint from me.
SO wild. This watch has kept a rock steady +2/day for the past week. Obviously I can't say how that will flush out over time, but I am very pleased so far.

BTW: I should probably let threads involving the SBDC007 carry on without interspersing my experience every third post! But as one of the first guinea pigs, I keep piping up.
 

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Not at all chris. I was only referring to the 6r and not to seiko's ability to make highgrade mechanical (and other) movements. As for the 6r while it borrows some features from higher grade movements, it is mostly composed of unmodified 7s parts (Id say about 2/3 to 3/4). I'm not saying it is a bad movement by any means. I'm just saying that it's target parameters are different from those of the 2824, which has traditionally needed to be all things to a waide variety of manufacturers.
 

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I saw the 007 in person in Singapore, it was right next to a Sumo, and I must say it looks far superior to a Sumo.
These two should not even be compared as they are two totally different watches. Yes the movements are the same but nothing else.

I tried it on, it wears very very well, of course its very light, it has a beautiful Ti bracelet, and it feels and looks solid. Its BRUSHED ALL AROUND, (unlike the Sumo),
I absolutely loved this watched, and I would like to buy it.
I agree with some of you about the price, its a bit high, but if you can find it under a $1000, well worth.
 

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I'm ready to secure a SBDC007 can anyone recommend a good source? So far I've found one for $980 USD.
Seiko new SBDC line is released. :-! Looking forward to seeing more real live pictures but at this point the price doesn't work for me o|







source
 

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Reading this thread and seeing how the Shogun was received was a good history event. Especially because it was released when the dollar was weak and reading it now the Yen is weak. I wonder how the reactions would have changed if the pricing was $800USD back then instead of 1k.

Also, I bet all the haters wish they had purchased the mythical Orange Shogun back then! :p

This is where you and I split, my friend. First off, not even the SBDB001 Marinemaster sports this sort of protection, as far as I can tell. While the Marinemaster does use the Brightz Ti (which is 30% harder than SS), it is not married with Seiko's version of DLC, Diashield. To get these two together in a diver, you are talking Grand Seiko. And from what I can tell, the step from SS to Brightz/Diashield in the Grand Seiko costs you about $1000.

Funny, the deeper I dive to defend my opinion of the technology Seiko is using to finish and protech this piece, the more I think it really is fairly priced. Thanks everyone for convincing me of what a bargain it is to actually find this watch at under 1K.

You can call it the "Turkey" if you like. Considering it's full battle armor, crisper lines and the fact that it always seems to be under attack, I will be calling it the SHOGUN!

Any chance I can get a custom caseback? I want this on mine:
This summed up the entire thread/history of the SHOGUN upon release. I believe this is the greatest comment I have ever read on watch forums/groups.
 
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