Seiko Diver’s 1965 Modern Re-Interpretation SPB143J1 / SPB145J1 / SPB147J1 / SPB149J1

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boatswain

Discussion Starter · Mar 5, 2020 (Edited)

SPB143J1 / 145J1 / 147J1 / 149J1

Just saw this getting posted about here and thought it may be worth getting it's own thread going.

https://www.seikowatches.com/ca-en/products/prospex/spb149j1

https://www.seikowatches.com/us-en/products/prospex/special/55th-anniversary-limited/

It looks like an LE of 5,500 and a price of 140,000 yen.

Sapphire crystal

200m

Diashield

6R35

40.5mm diameter

47.6mm lug to lug

13.2mm thick

For my part I love the size and the dial, case and hands. No chapter ring.

I have been looking for awhile and I think It is almost my perfect seiko diver dare I say it.

There are also some non limited editions with grey and brown dials.

SPB143J1

SPB145J1

SPB147J1

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ryan850

· #1,086 · Jun 23, 2020

boatswain said:
Thanks for the thoughts.

Recalibrating my expectations now...

My guess is that these will have similar lume to say good quality micro brand c3 with moderate sized plots. Say something like the HALIOS Seaforth perhaps?. Good to very good and very serviceable but just not mind blowing.

Aesthetically it's actually probably more pleasant I guess in the day time. As the intense green yellow glow can sometimes clash with dials.

Interesting that you mention halios. I have the sunburst Grey with sapphire bezel and the 143 has a very similar aestetich. I think that would be my pick.

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ryan850

· #1,088 · Jun 23, 2020

v1triol said:
Or even better - find 3 or 4 microbrands which outperforms Longines and Seiko in the quality and every bang for the buck aspect.

The Wambulane should arrive soon.

I have learned to change my thought process a tad when it comes to micros vs established brands. Yes, from a spec standpoint, micros have the advantage.

Without getting into all the reasons why an established brand might have more value, I think a majority of the value inherently lies in the name. At least that is where I see it.

From a spec standpoint, these are prob worth more around the 600-800 retail. However, the brand has value (which is why some many of us are so interested in this release) and I could see that being worth at least 200.

So put the resting retail amount around 1000 and that sounds about right. With an AD discount of 10-20%, that seems perfectly fine for this one.

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ryan850

· #1,771 · Jul 10, 2020

ck2k01 said:
Ya.

The NTH tropic holes are 1.5mm.

I checked that I can get 1.8mm bars in there easily enough.

So the Ute Seiko Style Slim Fats (incoming)-being 1.78mm in the middle with 1.1mm tips-should do the trick for compatibility.

Ute also sells the reverse-Fatty Norms that are 2.5mm in the middle with 0.8mm tips. I also picked up a pair of these so that I can use the US waffle with non-Seiko watches.

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Out of curiosity, is the standard tip size for non seiko watches .8?

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ryan850

· #1,773 · Jul 10, 2020

ck2k01 said:
Ish.

I've seen .075mm (small end) to 1.1mm (Seiko), so I've always assumed around 0.8mm is pretty standard.

E.g.,

0.8mm:

Standard Diameter Replacement Watch Strap Spring Bars

These are quality standard size spring bar pins supplied in a pack of 3 pieces. Spring bars are used to fit a watch strap to your watch. Main Body Diameter: 1.78mm Tip Diameter: 0.8mm Tip Length: 0.9mm Our replacement spring bars are the SST type which means that that have a thicker shoulder...

www.watchgecko.com

Please Log In

2.5mm Fat Stainless Steel Spring Bars

These heavy duty, high quality spring bars are great for dive watches! We have 2.5mm fat 316L stainless steel bars in 18mm, 19mm, 20mm, 21mm, 22mm or 24mm.

holbensfinewatchbands.com

0.75-1.0mm:

The Highest Quality Swiss Made Spring Bars

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Thanks! That's very helpful. I always wondered what the standard sizes were.

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ryan850

· #2,016 · Jul 16, 2020

For me, while I think the steel looks great, I'd prefer a ceramic insert.

All of the counter points to why seiko went with steel seem like justifications and "talking yourself into" different reasons (kids get the watch with scars, looks better, doesn't shatter, etc)

None of those reasons are really a good argument for steel over ceramic. It's more a rationalization in one's own mind (IMO).

I think we all just need to understand that seiko used steel on purpose because by using ceramic, that would be just one more thing to put it closer in spec to the SLAxxx and they want to keep those tiers separate.

With that said, steel can look great and I think it looks great here.

Lets just not kid ourselves that steel is better than ceramic.

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ryan850

· #2,018 · Jul 16, 2020

mleok said:
I think that is probably at the heart of the issue. In a sense, it shouldn't be so surprising that Seiko engages in this kind of upselling, no other brand has so many aesthetically similar models at such a range of price points.

We saw such intention tweaks, like the hands on the SPB051, to get you to upgrade to the SLA017, or the inadequate adjustment on regular Seiko movements, even the 8L movements, which is more than deserving of careful adjustment and regulation, to push you towards Grand Seiko.

I recall there was once a thread showing a Seiko 5, a SARB, a SARX, and a Grand Seiko, all aesthetically very similar, but with ever increasing upgrades, and intention omissions meant to push you up to the next price point.

This is very well said and not at all surprising.

They run a business and they have to think of the price tiers as it relates to then business model.

------

I have never been a true seiko fan boy so the price increase has never really bothered me.

I think what they are doing is important for their brand stability moving forward and i think they've done a relatively good job.

I think these will ultimately settle around 900-1000 from AD and I think that is a perfectly reasonable price. If you look at their competition such as Oris and Longines, this seiko line stacks up fairly well.

We can go back and forth about the quality of movement but you are getting an in house movement that is mostly bullet proof with good PR albeit with wonky variance.

I have an Oris 65 and while it's a great watch, it's def not that great from a fit finish standpoint. The bezel action is also the worst in my collection. And I still think it's an awesome piece for the price.

----

If seiko could just dial in the QC and movement regulation just a tad more, I think they would create a whole new group of seiko fanatics that are willing to pay the higher price. And those things should cost that much more to accomplish.

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ryan850

· #2,033 · Jul 16, 2020

fallingtitan said:
ahhh man I'm looking at a oris 65 as my next diver!!!! but one with matching lume with the hands and markers. I dont like how some of their models have beige lume hands and patina on markers on the same watch lol. I dunno why they randomly do this?

I found the movember one has consistant lume but no bracelet. Anyways, fit and finish people say oris is good? this watch is way more then my sbdc107 it shoudn't be bad fit and finish. I have a feeling the oris is 50% too high of a price and rather get one used. but now having reservation

but then again everyones definition is different?
yesterday in the Affordable forum one guy got a new parnis and was raving of the quality and finish. I've handled a few parnis and they felt awful to me.

I guess I should clarify on the fit and finish. I'd say it's standard affair. Nothing spectacular but up to par. I have the bronze bezel with gilt indices and it's a very beautiful piece.

Don't let my response deter you. There's a reason I have it in my collection. It's a very beautiful piece. It's one of the most comfortable watches I own on bracelet and I'm a bracelet guy.

It would def fit on well next to the 143.

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ryan850

· #2,035 · Jul 16, 2020

fallingtitan said:
wish the movember edition came with bracelet!
how much is a bracelet you think off ad?

I've seen people post about cost but can't remember. Def in the 200s.

Def get one on bracelet. You can get a standard 65 for around 950 on bracelet if your patient. I sold my full kit for that much when I moved from the standard to the bronze.

Not sure if buying and then selling sans bracelet would be more cost effective than buying bracelet from AD.

No bracelet options I've seen go from 725 up to 850ish.

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ryan850

· #2,046 · Jul 16, 2020

mi6_ said:
There's tons of watches with deeply engraved brushed ceramic bezel inserts (Oris Aquis has a brushed ceramic bezel option that comes with a fully brushed bracelet on a flat black dial). They have the exact same look as the brushed steel insert. Seiko totally cheaped out and is price gouging us. The SPB14X should have a brushed ceramic insert. It's superior to a stainless steel insert in every way. Go ahead and spend $1,200 on a new Seiko watch if you like the bezel getting all dinged up after a week or two of wear. Not me, I'm not a sucker. Wouldn't it be nicer to hand your child a watch that has been worn for 20 years and looks brand new versus one all beat to hell?

View attachment 15350907
View attachment 15350909

We get it dude. You prefer ceramic over steel and think seiko are price gouging using steel.

I'm someone that agrees with you but at the end of the day you've made your point and you don't need to keep beating a dead horse.

Seiko used steel for a specific reason and I guarantee its not because they thought it was "better."

Seiko is not the value king anymore and they aren't trying to pack as much spec into as little cost as possible, like every other micro.

What they ARE doing is creating a very well done watch that plays on their heritage at a price point that utilized the value of their brand.

It isn't rocket science. It's business. People can choose to buy them or not.

It seems apparent that there are many people that have. It's also apparent that you will not be buying one. Everyone has a choice where they spend their money.

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ryan850

· #2,100 · Jul 17, 2020

mi6_ said:
Sorry but have to disagree for two reasons:

1) You can do an ENGRAVED and matte BRUSHED finished ceramic bezel insert (see above Oris Aquis photo for reference ) that looks exactly the same as the stainless steel one Seiko used. It would be more scratch resistant and would never fade. Could shatter more easily perhaps, but zi still contest those instances of ceramic shattering are few and far between.

2) Seiko puts ceramic bezel inserts on watches half the price (King Turtle and Samuraui), In fact Seiko is so competent at ceramics they made a watch called the Transocean a few years back which featured an entire bezel, not just the insert, constructed entirely of ceramic.

So in my opinion Seiko cut corners to save costs and maximize profits. Do you notice that Seiko never makes the perfect watch? There's always something missing from their watches. Bracelet might be poor, doesn't have sapphire, doesn't have Diashield, downgraded movement (Cocktail Time) etc. They're always purposefully holding back on building the uptime spec of watch so you either have to buy multiple Seiko's or move higher up within the brand to get all the desired features.

I guess I should be commending them for this brilliant marketing scheme instead of chastising them?

I'd say it's all frame of reference and history.

They started in lower end so now that they are moving up market and not providing as much spec, the previous fans of the brand have a reason to feel jilted.

Conversely, a brand like Oris never sold lower end watches so there is no frame of reference for lose priced Oris. So Oris pricing their watches where they do, is just standard business for them. Same with all of the other brands in the 1k plus tier.

I think there is reason to feel this way but it is what it is and we should compare the current iterations on their own merit against other watches in the same price tier (vs comparing against their own previously made watches at lower price points).

I haven't handled any of these new ones but from reading about them, it seems they compare well to an Oris 65 which I do have. And retail on those is at least 600 more from AD.

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ryan850

· #4,549 · Dec 21, 2020

JimmyBoots said:
Just got the SPB147 in. Initial reaction was wow this is really nice. On closer inspection Seiko messed up the alignment of the bezel and my pip is a fraction of a mm off. I'll eventually get this issue fixed.

Over all I'm still happy with it and it's a beautiful watch.

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Love the comparison. I just picked up a 2254 and have been casually thinking of swapping out the cward trident I have with one of these seiko reissues.

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ryan850

· #4,847 · Jan 27, 2021

Watch Obsessive said:
Trying out my aftermarket WatchGecko straight end link oyster. Not attached it yet as although I have enough spring bars to last a lifetime, I don't have the correct ones for the lug holes. Just ordered some 'skinny fat' bars from WatchGecko which should do the trick.

I don't think it looks too bad as a cheap alternative to buying the OEM. Not usually a fan of straight end link oysters but the lugs on this case make it look a bit better with minimal gap between end links and case.

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Oyster looks great. Def gives it more of a vintage vibe with the taper. A 4mm taper is my preference. It makes the for a much more comfortable wearing experience, and it decreases the weight a decent amount.

smkader said:
Did the SPB051 have Diashield? Strapcode already makes bracelets for that model, so hopefully they've had experience with matching the color.

051 had diashild. I don't believe strapcode did anything different with the steel.

jbg7474 said:
Please report back on the skinny-fat spring bars when you get them. I got a lovely Bonetto-Cinturini rubber strap with a nice deployant clasp and the included spring bars are just way too small for the lug holes. The Seiko fat bars are too big for the strap holes.

Oh, dang, I just searched for them. At $3.99, I'll risk it without the report!

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I hear you on price. But my thought is if I'm already paying $1xxx for one of these watches, what is another $10 to get a perfect fit with the spring bars and have total piece of mind that they fit perfectly.

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ryan850

· #4,848 · Jan 27, 2021

Excited to be joining the party shortly. Have one incoming.

I was originally reluctant as I'm not a huge fan of the 6r and $1000 for a seiko felt like too much. But the more reviews I watched, the more the appeal started to arise. Seiko has such a rich heritage, especially with divers, and I'm 100% a diver guy.

I ultimately decided to move on from the last non diver in the rotation (oris pro pilot) and go completely diver (monta, oris 65, cward mk3, halios sf). It will be an excellent addition to the divers family.

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ryan850

· #4,850 · Jan 27, 2021

From the pics, the alignment seems to be good so that's a relief. Either way, I'm not a time keeping snob and I rotate watches so often that even 10 to 15 sec/day wouldn't be noticed.

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ryan850

· #4,872 · Jan 29, 2021

Just received in the mail yesterday. Initial impressions are awesome. Feels like a luxury watch on wrist, comparable to the other divers in my collection.

I can see why people compare it to a tudor bb58. From the divers in my collection, it's similar to the monta OK and cward trident in terms of presence and feel on wrist.

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ryan850

· #4,873 · Jan 29, 2021

The dial has different shades depending on the angle of the light.

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ryan850

· #4,879 · Jan 31, 2021

h_zee13 said:
I am so glad I went with the SPB147. Ever since I got my BB58 in blue, I had this itch to get the black version too but I couldn't get myself to spend another $5k for the same watch. This SPB147 is the perfect alternative to the BB58

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I would agree. I just received mine and the quality is def high enough to be a complement to the bb58.

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ryan850

· #4,892 · Jan 31, 2021

mattonthewater said:
I really wish we could, its really my only complaint about the watch. It adds to the rattles and isn't something that 99% of owners will ever need or use.

I'm curious if anyone has swapped the clasp to something other than the mm300 clasp.

ryan850

· #4,895 · Feb 1, 2021

sirep said:
This Strapcode will work, though it is bulkier than the OEM clasp.

I'm going to examine the clasp a little more and see if I can fit something else.

The clasp is the one thing I'm not super enthused about as the buckle mechanism feels cheap.

I have on the fly adjustment clasps on all of my other divers and ive become spoiled with how nice it is.

ryan850

· #4,900 · Feb 1, 2021

Does anyone know a dealer that has these in stock atm?

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