[sysbox27]

Hi,
I have recently seen several comments by fellow forumers indicating that there is no difference between the SKX007 J and K models. The former was supposedly made and assembled in Japan whereas the latter was manufactured in Singapore or China or wherever, but I am not even sure of this as some say that the J models aren't even assembled in Japan anymore.

I wanted to ask the same question of the 6309 divers...

Is there any difference (quality or otherwise) between the models that are marked Japan on the back and front as opposed to those that are not?
It would appear that the later models no longer had the Japan markings (possibly because Seiko had then moved factory to cheaper labour location?).

And then further to that is there any difference between the 6309 7040 models and the 7049 models (these were apparantly for export to the USA)?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,
G.

 

[Pawl_Buster]

Hi,
I have recently seen several comments by fellow forumers indicating that there is no difference between the SKX007 J and K models. The former was supposedly made and assembled in Japan whereas the latter was manufactured in Singapore or China or wherever, but I am not even sure of this as some say that the J models aren't even assembled in Japan anymore.

I wanted to ask the same question of the 6309 divers...

Is there any difference (quality or otherwise) between the models that are marked Japan on the back and front as opposed to those that are not?
It would appear that the later models no longer had the Japan markings (possibly because Seiko had then moved factory to cheaper labour location?).

And then further to that is there any difference between the 6309 7040 models and the 7049 models (these were apparantly for export to the USA)?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,
G.

Firstly, the J and K designations do not indicate where a particular watch was made or assembled; only what market they were intended for.

The same applies to the older designations like 7040 vs 7040; intended market not location of manufacture. In fact most of these watches were made in the same plants on the same assembly lines and then supplied with the case back appropriate for the market into which it was going to be sold.

Secondly all Seiko watches are made and assembled to Seiko standards irrespective of location.

Today only the high end calibers are actually made in Japan and they are of obviously better quality to start with :-!

 

[AirWatch]

Usually Seikos that are put together in Japan will have "MADE IN JAPAN" on the edge of dial between the 6 and 7 o'clock markers. Other countries are usually identified on the case back following the words "MADE IN". Name of countries by themselves or with the abbreviation "MOV.", either on the dial's edge or case back or the movement itself, identify where the movement was made and not necessarily where the entire watch was manufactured. By the way, Japan made Seikos come in most price categories and are not really limited to their high-end models. Oh, goody! This gives me a good excuse to show off my SNZB23 again. Enjoy!

 

[Pawl_Buster]

Usually Seikos that are put together in Japan will have "MADE IN JAPAN" on the edge of dial between the 6 and 7 o'clock markers. Other countries are usually identified on the case back following the words "MADE IN". Name of countries by themselves or with the abbreviation "MOV.", either on the dial's edge or case back or the movement itself, identify where the movement was made and not necessarily where the entire watch was manufactured. By the way, Japan made Seikos come in most price categories and are not really limited to their high-end models. Oh, goody! This gives me a good excuse to show off my SNZB23 again. Enjoy!

Unless that is an old vintage model, it is highly unlikely it was manufactured, assembled and cased in Japan or else it would have cost over $1000.

The words on the dial and case back are legaleze for import/export reasons and are not indicative of where a watch was actually made. The cost of labour in Japan precludes any entry level Seiko watches from actually being made in that country.

That being said, every Seiko at whatever price point is equal in quality no matter where the parts were stamped out, where they were assembled or where the whole thing was cased up. Seiko has a rigid set of manufacturing standards that all factories adhere to.

 

[SteveLens]

I used to be rather cautious with items 'Made in China' however there's no need to worry.

People often associate items 'Made in China' with cheap factories, child labor and/or lack of skill and thus low quality stuff. But the people assembling watches in China are anything but your average Happy Meal toy makers. The people working in Seiko factories are trained, work in Seiko factories with the right equipment and cleanrooms and earn significantly more than the average chinese labourer. But someone who earns 5 times the average wage in china is still 4 times as cheap as a Japanese craftsman.

Same goes for companies like Sony, Microsoft and even 'Swedish' Ikea furniture.
My Xbox is 10 year old and still runs fine, my Ps3 is 5 year old and looks brand new and I have some Ikea furniture that has had more blow than Mike Tyson functioning fine and still looking excellent.

Ofcourse there's a difference in quality but you'll be paying for it dearly, even affordable Tissot watches (Made in Swiss) start at whereabout $400 for the simplest designs, so the biggest difference is price.

 

[Wolfsatz]

You are going to find 2 sides of the spectrum with this question. I just recently bought my very 1st Seiko and shortly after another diver. I had to option of choosing the cheaper K model of the J; and finally decided to go for the Made in Japan model.
2 things to consider:

1. Resale value - If you ever decide to part or trade a Seiko; a Japan made model will yield a bit more advantage.
2. Knowing the Japanese culture for a few years; I can tell you that you can export technology, but you cannot export the Japanese state of mind to achieve perfection thus another reason I rather buy Japanese made.

As previously stated, be careful about the J. Does not always indicate that it has been made in Japan.

 

[pithy]

I used to be rather cautious with items 'Made in China' however there's no need to worry.

People often associate items 'Made in China' with cheap factories, child labor and/or lack of skill and thus low quality stuff. But the people assembling watches in China are anything but your average Happy Meal toy makers. The people working in Seiko factories are trained, work in Seiko factories with the right equipment and cleanrooms and earn significantly more than the average chinese labourer. But someone who earns 5 times the average wage in china is still 4 times as cheap as a Japanese craftsman.

Same goes for companies like Sony, Microsoft and even 'Swedish' Ikea furniture.
My Xbox is 10 year old and still runs fine, my Ps3 is 5 year old and looks brand new and I have some Ikea furniture that has had more blow than Mike Tyson functioning fine and still looking excellent.

Ofcourse there's a difference in quality but you'll be paying for it dearly, even affordable Tissot watches (Made in Swiss) start at whereabout $400 for the simplest designs, so the biggest difference is price.

Stevie there are QC issues with chinese products posted at wus on an almost hourly basis but thanks any way for the laughs.

 

[nepatriot]

You are going to find 2 sides of the spectrum with this question. I just recently bought my very 1st Seiko and shortly after another diver. I had to option of choosing the cheaper K model of the J; and finally decided to go for the Made in Japan model.
2 things to consider:

1. Resale value - If you ever decide to part or trade a Seiko; a Japan made model will yield a bit more advantage.
2. Knowing the Japanese culture for a few years; I can tell you that you can export technology, but you cannot export the Japanese state of mind to achieve perfection thus another reason I rather buy Japanese made.

As previously stated, be careful about the J. Does not always indicate that it has been made in Japan.

Incontestable fact, long since discussed and beaten to death here: J and K, "made in" and "MVT assembled" are based on where Seiko plans to export to and sell a product via their AD network (gray mkt does not apply). This is based upon what various countries require for imported watches. Very few Seiko's are "made in Japan", certainly not a 5. Seiko mfg's and assembles in numerous factories throughout Asia. All watches within the same model are typically made in the same factory, regardless of what dial is used. Same for movements. Seiko may move production from time to time. A 4r36 seems to have some final mod or assembly done in Japan, hence models with that MVT for sale in the US AD network say "MVT Japan". Per US law. They are not really made in Japan, as that implies.

 

[HoustonReal]

Stevie there are QC issues with chinese products posted at wus on an almost hourly basis but thanks any way for the laughs.

Do you mean like all those Apple iPhones and iPads, that are made in China?

Beijing Watch Factory, Sea-Gull, Ebohr, Peacock and other Chinese watches are known to be quality pieces. They should not be confused with SKMEI, Yazole, Curren, and other $10 watches. QC differs broadly across China, depending on who is enforcing the standards.

 

[Razvan]

You mean that a Seiko 5 with a 4207 calibre is not really made in Japan, even if it is marked as such on the dial?

(I insist on buying a Japanese-made watch for my wife.) I found one on Amazon that ships to Europe (UK, at least)
but I'm too new here to be able to post links. It's a SYMG71J1 (there's only one result if searched on Amazon, to circumvent
my limitation with links).

 

[jerouy]

You mean that a Seiko 5 with a 4207 calibre is not really made in Japan, even if it is marked as such on the dial?

(I insist on buying a Japanese-made watch for my wife.) I found one on Amazon that ships to Europe (UK, at least)
but I'm too new here to be able to post links. It's a SYMG71J1 (there's only one result if searched on Amazon, to circumvent
my limitation with links).

As summarized in my earlier post, the term "Made in Japan" is only as accurate as the local laws say it has to be.
Now it would be your job to figure out where the heck is this "local".... But take this, if the alternative language of day in your watch is Arabic, you have a pretty good clue.

 

[Razvan]

As summarized in my earlier post, the term "Made in Japan" is only as accurate as the local laws say it has to be.
Now it would be your job to figure out where the heck is this "local".... But take this, if the alternative language of day in your watch is Arabic, you have a pretty good clue.

I've begun to read your "earlier post", seems very interesting. I'm from Romania (I'd like a day indicator in English), but I would like to purchase from the UK (haven't seen a Seiko 5 marked "Made in Japan"
here in Romania). The watch I like from Amazon is sold by MOON DOG, apparently a Japanese supplier.

How are the local laws in the UK regarding the "Made in Japan" marking?

 

[Seikogi]

Made in Japan = Swiss Made = a term for a product that requires some conditions. Most of your high end swiss watches won't be 100% Swiss made and certainly not your entry or mid range level seikos...

 

[Razvan]

I have found another thread with some very interesting insights (again, I'm too new here to be able to post links so I quote):

<<".....due to the nature of customs and labor laws in Japan, products are generally allowed to be stamped with Made in Japan if they are produced outside the national boundaries as long as they are manufactured in a wholly owned Japanese firm where the work is overseen by Japanese nationals. Generally speaking, watches priced below about 90000 yen (currently $838 US dollars) do not contain enough profit margin to be made in Japan. This is not just for Seiko, but for all major Japanese manufacturers. Watches priced roughly from 90000 to 250000 yen (currently $838 to 2328 US dollars) are often finished or with final assembly done in Japan and higher end watches above this point are often fully assembled in Japan. .....">>

Taken from a thread named "Where Seiko Watches Are Really Made - A Juicy Mistake", post was made by "jayhall0315" and it quotes a Seiko employee.

It seems that I should choose based exclusively on design and not fuss about MIJ anymore.

 

[Seikogi]

I have found another thread with some very interesting insights (again, I'm too new here to be able to post links so I quote):

<<".....due to the nature of customs and labor laws in Japan, products are generally allowed to be stamped with Made in Japan if they are produced outside the national boundaries as long as they are manufactured in a wholly owned Japanese firm where the work is overseen by Japanese nationals. Generally speaking, watches priced below about 90000 yen (currently $838 US dollars) do not contain enough profit margin to be made in Japan. This is not just for Seiko, but for all major Japanese manufacturers. Watches priced roughly from 90000 to 250000 yen (currently $838 to 2328 US dollars) are often finished or with final assembly done in Japan and higher end watches above this point are often fully assembled in Japan. .....">>

Taken from a thread named "Where Seiko Watches Are Really Made - A Juicy Mistake", post was made by "jayhall0315" and it quotes a Seiko employee.

It seems that I should choose based exclusively on design and not fuss about MIJ anymore.

That sounds pretty accurate! And with Swiss I believe its something more than 50% of the total value has to be "done" there.

 

[jerouy]

I've begun to read your "earlier post", seems very interesting. I'm from Romania (I'd like a day indicator in English), but I would like to purchase from the UK (haven't seen a Seiko 5 marked "Made in Japan"
here in Romania). The watch I like from Amazon is sold by MOON DOG, apparently a Japanese supplier.

How are the local laws in the UK regarding the "Made in Japan" marking?

I don't think you get it.
"Local" means where the product is "intended" to be sold, NOT where the product is actually sold.

Say, if you are purchasing a product from an UK seller, who gets his items directly from Seiko UK, then you are protected by UK law -- "local" is UK.
But if this UK seller gets his items from some other sources, Seiko UK has no liability about whatever written on it -- "local" is not UK. Where is it then, you may ask? I don't really know. And Seiko wouldn't tell you. Just from my experience, all low-end MIJ models are apparently intended to be sold in eastern Europe or middle-east countries.

BTW I have seen some watches with alternate day in Romanian. They are all K models -- your laws are strict, presumably.

 

[mrfourcows]

You mean that a Seiko 5 with a 4207 calibre is not really made in Japan, even if it is marked as such on the dial?

In my experience, the best way to tell if a watch truly is "Made in Japan" is to look not at the dial, but at the caseback.

Look at the JDM models, you will invariably find "Made in Japan".

SBDC001 SUMO


SARB065 COCKTAIL TIME


You'll find this to be true too in Grand Seikos:


Older watches may just have "Japan". This is a SCVK001 4S movement from 1992 designed for the high end european market... and thence most likely actually made in Japan:


In contrast, compare this to a SKX007 that has no mention of Japan at all. Not sure if this is a K or J.


But apparently some SKX007Js do have "Japan" inscribed:
Seiko Skx007j has Japan WP not Japan A serial is it fake - Page 2


Or a Turtle. I know it says "Movement Japan" – but I think this only refers to the 4R36 movement. Further, this is not the same as "Made in Japan" as with the JDMs/GSs. Because of my theory, I believe that all Turtles are made in China regardless of whether it says "Made in Japan", "Movement Japan" or "4R36" on the dial.


But compare this to an original 6309 Turtle which has "Japan" proudly inscribed.


The regular monster 4R36 SRP313 has a plain caseback:


But the upgraded JDM monster 6R15 SBDC025 has "Made in Japan" on the caseback:


I hope I've made my point b-)

 

[mrfourcows]

In addition to my point.

Someone once told me that when they popped their SBDC001 SUMO caseback open, it read "China" on the inside/behind.

Thence, I believe that when it says "Made in Japan" it does not necessarily mean that all the components were built in Japan; but rather that the final putting together was done in Japan.

 

[PassiveO]

I'm no expert, but do have an interest in this topic. mrfourcows, how does my Turtle fit with your theory? I will open the case some day. Thanks.

Made in Japan on the dial.

Made in Japan on the case back.

 

[babola]

I'm no expert, but do have an interest in this topic. mrfourcows, how does my Turtle fit with your theory? I will open the case some day. Thanks.

We've been over this number of times before in the WIS-dom, plenty of threads even on this forum.

And your MIJ Turtle isn't made in Japan, sorry. It's made in Seiko subsidiary factory in one of the other Asian countries, but not Japan. Best bet is Malaysia but it may well be China.