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Can you prove your statement? Are you on the engineering team for Seiko in developing this watch? If not, you statement is one sided, since we don't have any facts from Seiko... And yes I understand all the information on the Omega movements. But sometimes new IS better.
Can you prove yours? How can you prove thet the new Seiko IS better. Has it even been to space yet?
 

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O.K. not a lie -just a gross misrepresentation.... Or perhaps "Spin"
(I'm referring to the whole paragraph not just what I highlighted...)

Why? - because Seiko has worded it to make it seem that anything that came before their watch was inadequate. Yes, a mechanical watch will be influenced by the temperature. But so will their new watch. Now there could be differences that are likely dependent on the duration of exposure to that temperature and the rate at which the shift happens......

But it would be difficult to show all those graphs and who really cares.... When all you need to do is say it enough times. I am not commenting on the product itself - I don't know enough about this to do so. Rather I am commenting on the approach taken to advertise this....



Why is that a lie? Simple physics.

Put a mechanical watch (can even be a c.321) into the fridge (about 5 oC) and time it for a day. You may just be surprised.

The COSC chronometer standard also allows for a 18s p/d rate variance between 38 and 8 oC.
 

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It's just an opinion, SD. I have to remind myself of that, sometimes. It's one thing to say that watch A is bigger than watch B. That's fact. But, when you say watch A is better than watch B, that's opinion.

eric

Yeah, I got that, but I figures he needs a poke in the logic every once in awhile... :D Thanks for helping though!
 

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Can you prove yours? How can you prove thet the new Seiko IS better. Has it even been to space yet?

I can't prove anything in reguards to Seiko's statement, but I was hoping George could prove his one sided belief, which I know he can't. Therefore I can have the hope that the Seiko will do it's duty just fine.

P.S. Their advertising sounds good to me, I don't see it as a Lie, but it is statements with no facts backing it. It COULD be bad, but I am sure they did their testing before any of this... In the end I am sure the results are similar, but it was easier to use this technology for them then fabricate something else.
 

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I'm certainly not brand blind enough not to say this is a fine looking new timepiece regardless of who made it, there always seemed like there was enough space out there for everyone one more watch won't make much of a difference.
 

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Why is it even a discussion?

Omega was chosen by NASA. Tested and approved. Omega didn't
pay anyone. It was chosen for what it was and is. Not so with
the Seiko. I'm not running it in the ground or saying anything about
build quality. Its a fine watch. Its just not approved by NASA
and nothing Seiko says can change that. The press release is riddled
with untruths, not just inaccuracies. Read it.
I don't know what James Bond, the imaginary super secret agent
got to do with anything, but it is what it is. The Seiko is not
approved by NASA. Its not going to be the first on the moon, not going to be first in space but it will be the first watch that paid the
fourth or fifth "space tourist" to wear it. Now thats really impressive.
jim
 

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That's more a reflection on your high school. At mine nobody gave a damn what watch you were wearing, good, bad, expensive or cheap (and all types were represented).

Now... if you took too much notice of what somebody was wearing... then you might have a baseball bat dent on the side of your head. Good Catholic school I went to. :-!

I think the point made by a few here is that while you might not like Seikos and want to point out the inaccuracies you see in the press release, you can do that without taking a shot at the brand. Seiko has it's place in the horological world and they DO make some decent watches.

Expanding one's horizons and enjoying the variety available without denigrating other options is not a bad thing.
Come'on man, I know it's cold up there but certainly your sense of humor hasn't frozen too. I could care less what watch anyone wore in highschool. Actually, I dropped out in the 5th grade to work in the salt mines down in Avery Island. I had to support my widowed mom and 12 siblings. Pa got killed when he fell under the combine and the bank was trying to take our farm. The drought killed off most of our tater crop, so I had to help pay the bills. Besides, most of the watch companies back then made butt ugly digitals. Lighten up. ;-) - David
 

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Poor thing..... I can't stop crying since I read your story....
I'm so touched i'm going to send you one of these:




Come'on man, I know it's cold up there but certainly your sense of humor hasn't frozen too. I could care less what watch anyone wore in highschool. Actually, I dropped out in the 5th grade to work in the salt mines down in Avery Island. I had to support my widowed mom and 12 siblings. Pa got killed when he fell under the combine and the bank was trying to take our farm. The drought killed off most of our tater crop, so I had to help pay the bills. Besides, most of the watch companies back then made butt ugly digitals. Lighten up. ;-) - David
 

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Come'on man, I know it's cold up there but certainly your sense of humor hasn't frozen too. I could care less what watch anyone wore in highschool. Actually, I dropped out in the 5th grade to work in the salt mines down in Avery Island. I had to support my widowed mom and 12 siblings. Pa got killed when he fell under the combine and the bank was trying to take our farm. The drought killed off most of our tater crop, so I had to help pay the bills. Besides, most of the watch companies back then made butt ugly digitals. Lighten up. ;-) - David
Tough childhood, who knew?............David
 

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Re: Why is it even a discussion?

Omega was chosen by NASA. Tested and approved. Omega didn't
pay anyone. It was chosen for what it was and is. Not so with
the Seiko. I'm not running it in the ground or saying anything about
build quality. Its a fine watch. Its just not approved by NASA
and nothing Seiko says can change that. The press release is riddled
with untruths, not just inaccuracies. Read it.
I don't know what James Bond, the imaginary super secret agent
got to do with anything, but it is what it is. The Seiko is not
approved by NASA. Its not going to be the first on the moon, not going to be first in space but it will be the first watch that paid the
fourth or fifth "space tourist" to wear it. Now thats really impressive.
jim
I think it'd be interesting to see what happens when/if NASA runs the tests again. Would the Speedy still be the only one to prevail?

I remember reading in the NASA tests that all of the watches deviated in their accuracy by different amounts. It just happened that the Speedy deviated the least as well as kept running, but it still suffered some variance. Good for Omega that it could pull it off 40 years ago. But Seiko's watch might be able to match or even beat the Speedy in the same tests today. Don't rule it out.

Without a controlled test, none of us will know.
 

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Poor thing..... I can't stop crying since I read your story....
I'm so touched i'm going to send you one of these:

That's very kind of you Joe. Actually, I'd like both of them. And I'll take the watch too if you don't mind. b-) - David
 

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I think I'm be more interested in how well the space suit is made, rather than how well the watch is made...
This is a pretty good point. I'm not the NASA junkie that some folks around here are, but just how important is a wristwatch on a spacewalk, today? This seems to me a situation where Seiko is doing it for the challenge of doing it. There's nothing wrong with designing and building a tough watch, with the purpose of withstanding harsh environments. The difference with Speedy, though, is that when it first went to space, it was just an off the shelf watch. Omega didn't even know they had taken it into space, until after the fact.

eric
 

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True. Also the colors are very important. You don't want to go on your historical space walk only to meet another astronaut wearing exactly the same outfit...:-d
Burberry makes a rather nice one .... but it's overpriced IMO and kinda for posers. - David
 

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Re: Why is it even a discussion?

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens when/if NASA runs the tests again. Would the Speedy still be the only one to prevail?

I remember reading in the NASA tests that all of the watches deviated in their accuracy by different amounts. It just happened that the Speedy deviated the least as well as kept running, but it still suffered some variance. Good for Omega that it could pull it off 40 years ago. But Seiko's watch might be able to match or even beat the Speedy in the same tests today. Don't rule it out.

Without a controlled test, none of us will know.
Deviation in timekeeping was only part of the testing. There are many more parts of the test done by NASA. Any mechanical watch will
deviate in the temperature extremes. ANY. Seiko might be able to
match the tests passed by the Speedmaster Pro. Those tests are
public knowledge and the criteria used by NASA has been published.
Should be pretty simple for Seiko to put that new watch through the
paces. I wonder why they haven't?
I'll stand by my statement that a space tourist will be paid to wear the Seiko. Not even the first space tourist. Its advertising pure and
simple. Seiko's engineering dept didn't put out those falsehoods.
The advertising dept did.
jim
 

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O.K. not a lie -just a gross misrepresentation.... Or perhaps "Spin"
(I'm referring to the whole paragraph not just what I highlighted...)

Why? - because Seiko has worded it to make it seem that anything that came before their watch was inadequate. Yes, a mechanical watch will be influenced by the temperature. But so will their new watch. Now there could be differences that are likely dependent on the duration of exposure to that temperature and the rate at which the shift happens......

But it would be difficult to show all those graphs and who really cares.... When all you need to do is say it enough times. I am not commenting on the product itself - I don't know enough about this to do so. Rather I am commenting on the approach taken to advertise this....
By current standards, any mechanical watch is inadequate!

Quartz trounces it in reliability, accuracy/precision, robustness under shock, temperature variance etc. The numbers prove it. They're an order or two better in all respects.

Thing is, Spring Drive is part-quartz.

Granted I take some of what's mentioned in the press release with a pinch of salt but the paragraph you cited:

As the watch will be exposed to a range of temperature from minus 20 degrees Celsius to plus 70, accuracy at extreme temperatures was the critical factor, and no mechanical watch can retain its accuracy in these conditions, because of the inherent instability in these conditions of the traditional escapement which regulates the time in all mechanical watches.
is entirely factual.

Perhaps your perception is biased because this encroaches on the topic of Omega and Space?
 

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Come'on man, I know it's cold up there but certainly your sense of humor hasn't frozen too. I could care less what watch anyone wore in highschool. Actually, I dropped out in the 5th grade to work in the salt mines down in Avery Island. I had to support my widowed mom and 12 siblings. Pa got killed when he fell under the combine and the bank was trying to take our farm. The drought killed off most of our tater crop, so I had to help pay the bills. Besides, most of the watch companies back then made butt ugly digitals. Lighten up. ;-) - David
You clearly underestimate the cold David.

Not only is my sense of humor frozen, but it was only a recent warm front that allowed enough of me to defrost in order for me to sense that my sense of humor was frozen.

I have no problem lightening up, but I have no choice but to take you literally when the joke lacks the funny, interesting or clever part.

Include the punchline next time and I will be the first to applaud.
 

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Well, like I said - this is new technology and untested in space. I agree about your statement regarding Quartz vs. Mechanical under most conditions. But do we know how a quartz performs in outer space? Is part quartz better? Who knows.... I don't and to be honest - I don't really care that much...

By current standards, any mechanical watch is inadequate!

Quartz trounces it in reliability, accuracy/precision, robustness under shock, temperature variance etc. The numbers prove it. They're an order or two better in all respects.

Thing is, Spring Drive is part-quartz.
This was the main point I was trying to convey when I said hype, spin, etc...
Granted I take some of what's mentioned in the press release with a pinch of salt {cut}
I agree. I did a lousy job on this. I should have pasted the whole paragraph and not highlighted (BTW - did you see my signature ;-))

{cut} but the paragraph you cited:

is entirely factual.
Don't think so.... I collect many brands and pretty open minded... Did I mention the Seiko itself is pretty cool design :-!... No, what really bothers me is the use of spin, hype and half truths in advertising, be it Omega, Seiko or, god forbid, Rolex...;-)

Perhaps your perception is biased because this encroaches on the topic of Omega and Space?
 
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