[noxious]

Guys,

At the moment i'am saving money for a new watch. Problem is...? I cannot choose between these two watches:

- Seiko Prospex SBDC001 Marinemaster 300m,

or the

- Tag Heuer aquaracer calibre 5 (automatic) 500m.

I'am not a diver as profession nor enthousiast, and just for some reason huge fan of dive watches.

Problem is they are both expensive and i cannot choose! Most important is the fact i want bang for buck. Also some people claim Tag Heuer not to make its own movements???? Is that true, for the above mentioned Tag?

Maybe, there is someone out there who has some experience with these watches. If so, can u help me with my dilema...!?

 

[vjb.knife]

What difference does it really make if Tag makes their own movement or not? Take the watch for what it is and go from there with your decision. I don't know if they do or not; I think they might make the chrono movement that's in the Aquagraph but this Cal 5 is probably based on an ETA. Either way it is probably still a decent movement. I like this Aquaracer better than the models in the past and have looked at it in a local dealer. It looks solid and is probably a nice watch and it is cheaper than a Seiko Marinemaster 300 Auto.

That being said I still like the Seiko. It is a classic in it's own right, very original. I like to call the SBDX001 the Japanese Submariner although I am not trying to say that it takes anything from the Submariner in design or style, but that is a classic diving watch that is one of my favorites. Very few watches are overall a better deal or diving watch in general. I believe I will own one for the rest of my life.

 

[Spring-Diver]

I have never seen or owned the TAG so I can't have an opinion on it. However I've had my MM for 2 years now and I can say it is an awesome diver. You can dress it up on the bracelet or IMO strap it on the best 20mm strap ever made.
My MM is running at +3 sec a day and the lume is as good as it gets. The bezel action is incredibly smooth & precise. Plus the diver extension clasp is very cool.
Last but not least, the case is finished to perfection.

Check out these awesome photos by forum member Chris Moy:-!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/7844...M+case+shots...+(revised+with+camera+settings)

 

[AirWatch]

Guys,

At the moment i'am saving money for a new watch. Problem is...? I cannot choose between these two watches:

- Seiko Prospex SBDC001 Marinemaster 300m,

or the

- Tag Heuer aquaracer calibre 5 (automatic) 500m.

I'am not a diver as profession nor enthousiast, and just for some reason huge fan of dive watches.

Problem is they are both expensive and i cannot choose! Most important is the fact i want bang for buck. Also some people claim Tag Heuer not to make its own movements???? Is that true, for the above mentioned Tag?

Maybe, there is someone out there who has some experience with these watches. If so, can u help me with my dilema...!?

I have no experience with either but strongly believe that there's really no comparison, the Marinemaster easily comes out on top what with its status, pedigree and all-around goodness. No offense to you or the owners of that Tag, but in comparison with the Seiko, it comes across as just another watch.

 

[LUW]

IF the MM could be easily serviced anywhere in the world and not only Japan, I would go for it. But since it can't, and the fact the Aquaracer is such a darn fine watch, I would pick the Tag.

 

[Verdi]

Id go for the Tag cos its a new model with more personality.

 

[matt.wu]

I've owned the MM300 twice and will never own it again. In short, and in my opinion, HIGHLY overrated watch. Many love it, and that's their place, but it doesn't do it for me. The 8R15 movement is pretty much all it's got going for it, and even that doesn't always keep terrific time.

 

[Redrum]

THE TAG

1.- Has sapphire xtal
2.- Very nice overall
3.- Solid movement most decent watchmaker can work on.
4.- More affordable

THE SEIKO

1.- Mineral xtal
2.- monocoque case that only a few people outside Japan can work with.
3.- I've heard the movement is not as accurate (out of the box).
4.- Way more expensive

 

[TheWalrus]

IF the MM could be easily serviced anywhere in the world and not only Japan, I would go for it. But since it can't, and the fact the Aquaracer is such a darn fine watch, I would pick the Tag.

That says it for me as well. They're so close in aesthetics and quality, to my mind, that issues like practicality in purchasing and servicing, play a large role in the direction I'd go. It'd be sort of like choosing between a Ferrari and Porsche. I love both (and can afford neither), but ultimately there's a Porsche dealership across town so that's how I'd go.

 

[newmedia]

they are both fine watches, I seen tag a AD and I own two mm300.

both are heavy and large size, one has proven ETA 2824 and other high end SEIKO automatic movement.

can not go wrong with either one...b-)

 

[AirWatch]

they are both fine watches, I seen tag a AD and I own two mm300.

both are heavy and large size, one has proven ETA 2824 and other high end SEIKO automatic movement.

can not go wrong with either one...b-)

I like that :-!, that's pretty accurate. But which one would you pick is, I think, what noxious is interested in knowing.

As a bit of a digression, my current favorite diver is the new SBBN015 Tuna Can. It strikes a nice balance in Seiko's Prospex diver's lineup.

Another interesting one is the SBCM023 perpetual calendar with a highly accurate quartz movement in a plain, generic Seiko diver's package.

Here's a coupla shots of each:

SBBN015 Photos from Yeoman's Weblog

SBCM032 Photo from SeiyaJapan.com

 

[noxious]

Guys,

First of all thank you very much for voting on this one and for the comments as well of course. All your help and comments are very welcome.

@ vjb.knife: About the movement, i just thought Tag to be that grand and famous for its movements. Maybe it's just me, but i expect Tag as big as the brand is that they fix their own movements. Just like most other famous watch makers. On the other hand you're right. if the movements are really worth the money, than of course it doesn't matter who makes them.

@ Spring-Diver: Thanks for pointing me to those photos. They really look great. As you mentioned, the case indeed is finished to perfection!

@ AirWatch: Thanks for your opinion and being honest. Also for the second post with photos. I really like those watches as well. To be honest, considered buying the second one you posted. But to have it next to either the MM300 or Aquaracer. The thing you mentioned earlier is just one of my biggest points/conserns. Personally i think the Seiko looks are perfect for a diver. This in my opinion is how a classic diver should look like. But as Luw and The Walrus also mentioned, it's difficult to get it over,for example because of customs. Also if it breakes down a big problem shows up. This also counts for services being done in the future if i buy one. The Tag is Swiss and easily to get for me in The Netherlands. For sevices i can go to the juwelery in stead of going to the postoffice to have the watch sent to Japan.

My question for any of you guys: matt.wu claimed the MM300 not always be able to keep terrific time. Are there more experiences about this? I mean, with all the respect, but if the watch is really overrated. I don't say it is, but just imagine that... than there should be someone out there confirming these statements, right!? This actually is the first time i read such a comment, not claiming it to be true or not, but just interested if there are more of you feeling the same for the Seiko MM300 as matt.wu does!

Thank you guys for your time and efford.

Greetings,
Kevin

 

[Nikos]

With all else being equal, I see the MM as being more traditional in looks and the Tag as being more fashionable and to me that's why I wouldn't pick it. The MM will always look good and will have a good resale value. The Tag might look dated in five years. That might be a good thing as witnessed by some of the vintage divers I've seen or maybe not. Just something to consider.

 

[TheWalrus]

Guys,

First of all thank you very much for voting on this one and for the comments as well of course. All your help and comments are very welcome.

@ vjb.knife: About the movement, i just thought Tag to be that grand and famous for its movements. Maybe it's just me, but i expect Tag as big as the brand is that they fix their own movements. Just like most other famous watch makers. On the other hand you're right. if the movements are really worth the money, than of course it doesn't matter who makes them.

@ Spring-Diver: Thanks for pointing me to those photos. They really look great. As you mentioned, the case indeed is finished to perfection!

@ AirWatch: Thanks for your opinion and being honest. Also for the second post with photos. I really like those watches as well. To be honest, considered buying the second one you posted. But to have it next to either the MM300 or Aquaracer. The thing you mentioned earlier is just one of my biggest points/conserns. Personally i think the Seiko looks are perfect for a diver. This in my opinion is how a classic diver should look like. But as Luw and The Walrus also mentioned, it's difficult to get it over,for example because of customs. Also if it breakes down a big problem shows up. This also counts for services being done in the future if i buy one. The Tag is Swiss and easily to get for me in The Netherlands. For sevices i can go to the juwelery in stead of going to the postoffice to have the watch sent to Japan.

My question for any of you guys: matt.wu claimed the MM300 not always be able to keep terrific time. Are there more experiences about this? I mean, with all the respect, but if the watch is really overrated. I don't say it is, but just imagine that... than there should be someone out there confirming these statements, right!? This actually is the first time i read such a comment, not claiming it to be true or not, but just interested if there are more of you feeling the same for the Seiko MM300 as matt.wu does!

Thank you guys for your time and efford.

Greetings,
Kevin

I think that the one thing you want to remember is that someone out there is always going to find a particular watch overrated. Always. Doesn't matter which watch it is. That said, I've never heard anything about Marine Masters keeping bad time. I would also definitely not consider the Marine Master to be overrated.

As to in-house movements, I wouldn't let that sway you one way or the other in this comparison. Seiko makes a lot of movements in house. To the point where I've heard people compare them to ETA. There's nothing inherently special about that. These are mass produced movements. There aren't any wisened old Japanese watch makers laboring peice by piece over the Marine Master's movement in just the same way that there aren't any Swiss watch makers laboring piece by piece over a Tag's innards.

If I were you I would make my decision based only on real premises that affect you. Talk about inhouse movements as being 'more real' than ETAs clouds the issue. Talk about one watch being overrated or a poor time-keeper clouds the issue. I would suggest thinking only about the following:

1. Ease of purchase and repair.
2. Ultimate price you'll have to pay.
3. Aesthetic appeal to your eyes - and your eyes only.
4. Basic utility. Weight. Size. Readability.

For me, Tag wins 1 and 2. 4 is a toss up. So it comes down to #3 which is entirely subjective. Do you like the aesthetics of the Seiko so much more than the Tag that you'll over look the first two points. If you do, then buy the Seiko, if you don't, then the Tag warrants very serious consideration. And if you like the way the Tag looks more than the Seiko, the choice is easy.

 

[Kent108]

Actually, few "mass luxury" watch brands these days build their own watch movements from scratch. There's Seiko, there's Rolex, and there's ... brands that charge so much for a watch that "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." Possibly Citizen, but don't quote me on that.

The rest mostly buy movements from ETA. Some are semi-unfinished ETA movements that the manufacturer will then finish with custom parts, but they are still ETA based.

As has been said, this is just a reflection of how the industry has evolved since the mid 1900s -- from a functional or quality standpoint, there is nothing wrong with the practice.

Guys,

and famous for its movements. Maybe it's just me, but i expect Tag as big as the brand is that they fix their own movements. Just like most other famous watch makers.
@ Spring-Diver: Thanks for pointing me to those photos. They really look great. As you mentioned, the case indeed is finished to perfection!

@ AirWatch: Thanks for your opinion and being honest. Also for the second post with photos. I really like those watches as well. To be honest, considered buying the second one you posted. But to have it next to either the MM300 or Aquaracer. The thing you mentioned earlier is just one of my biggest points/conserns. Personally i think the Seiko looks are perfect for a diver. This in my opinion is how a classic diver should look like. But as Luw and The Walrus also mentioned, it's difficult to get it over,for example because of customs. Also if it breakes down a big problem shows up. This also counts for services being done in the future if i buy one. The Tag is Swiss and easily to get for me in The Netherlands. For sevices i can go to the juwelery in stead of going to the postoffice to have the watch sent to Japan.

My question for any of you guys: matt.wu claimed the MM300 not always be able to keep terrific time. Are there more experiences about this? I mean, with all the respect, but if the watch is really overrated. I don't say it is, but just imagine that... than there should be someone out there confirming these statements, right!? This actually is the first time i read such a comment, not claiming it to be true or not, but just interested if there are more of you feeling the same for the Seiko MM300 as matt.wu does!

Thank you guys for your time and efford.

Greetings,
Kevin

 

[manhattanproj]

i'll take the mm.

not a fan of tags. and for some reasons, the "calibre 5" on the face just ruins the watch for me.

 

[H3O+]

I harbor no love for the Marine Master.
I can't say I love the aesthetics of that particular TAG.
That said:
The Marine Master is generally regarded to be a very good watch-- bracelet, lume, case, etc. Where it doesn't cut it for me is: 1. Aesthetics, but that's personal. 2. Crystal. A watch that costs upwards of 2k really shouldn't have a scratch-able crystal. 3. Ease of service-- already covered. 4. Brand-- but again, personal.
As for the movement, I agree with what Walrus said. It always annoys me when Seiko or Citizen is praised for using in-house movements, and thereby recommended over companies which use ETAs. Seiko and Citizen do both make their own movements, but they're massive productions, not small workshops. Saying Seiko (or more aptly, Citizen, as they sell their movements under a different name) is a manufacture is like saying ETA is: it's technically true, but doesn't really matter.
In this case, I'd go with the TAG. The more common and serviceable movement and scratch-proof crystal give it greater longevity outside of Asia.

 

[Minuteman1]

For me it's the MM. JMHO

Regards,:-!

 

[matt.wu]

Talk about one watch being overrated or a poor time-keeper clouds the issue.

I agree with most of your post, but be careful here. Talking about in-house movement being "more real" vs. ETA definitely clouds the issue because it's totally subjective. After all, what the heck does it mean to be "more real"?

However, quantifying something as "overrated" as I have is an objective statement based on 98% of the reviews I have read on forums and elsewhere vs. my real world experience. If I read that the MM300 has a great bracelet, and I receive it and it's terrible, the bracelet has by definition been overrated. If I read that the finishing is on par with Rolex, and I receive the watch and it's nowhere near the quality in finishing dial, lume, case, or bracelet, then by definition, it's overrated.

And I don't see how talking about poor time-keeping clouds any issue? It's a watch. If anything, that's a pretty crucial point of consideration. Sure, +5-10 seconds/day isn't poor if you compare it to a 7s26. But compared to the other watches in the price range, it's poor.

I'm basing these evaluation on real-world experience with the watch. I'm not just bashing it because I enjoy creating strife. I was really excited about the MM300 and read up on it for over a year. When I received it, it was built up in my mind so much by all the reviews and recommendations that I'd read that I was massively underwhelmed. I'm just trying to give the OP a realistic review from my experience with the watch, objectively, because in reality, I'd guess that at least half the recommendations for the MM300 made in this thread and similar ones come from people who have never owned it - and that's not fair to the OP who's going to base his decision on a very significant purchase partially on the answers he receives in this thread.

Believe me, I tried to like the MM300. I even purchased it twice thinking maybe I judged it too quickly. But even with the lowered expectations through the second time I'd owned it, it didn't last very long.

For those who own 'em and love 'em, wear 'em in good health. I just can't possibly, in good conscience, recommend it to someone looking to spend $1.5-2k on a quality watch.

 

[AirWatch]

I'm basing these evaluation on real-world experience with the watch. I'm not just bashing it because I enjoy creating strife. I was really excited about the MM300 and read up on it for over a year. When I received it, it was built up in my mind so much by all the reviews and recommendations that I'd read that I was massively underwhelmed. I'm just trying to give the OP a realistic review from my experience with the watch, objectively, because in reality, I'd guess that at least half the recommendations for the MM300 made in this thread and similar ones come from people who have never owned it - and that's not fair to the OP who's going to base his decision on a very significant purchase partially on the answers he receives in this thread.

,,,

For those who own 'em and love 'em, wear 'em in good health. I just can't possibly, in good conscience, recommend it to someone looking to spend $1.5-2k on a quality watch.

Excellent! That bears repeating. :-!