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Hey Guys, first time poster and long time lurker. I ordered my first automatic watch as a gift for myself after finishing college this December. I decided on a modest SKX007 from Creation Watches. I loved it but quickly noticed the chapter ring was out of alignment as well as the lume on the bezel. I have contacted Creation about an RMA and am a little concerned about how they will respond. I know they have serviced many people without a problem. It's just the few stories i've seen about the trouble, headache and resistance encountered when bringing up returns and quality issues. I am unemployed and on the hunt for a job so the added cost of return sucks but I can't deal with it out of alignment. What do you guys think? I will keep you posted on the return process.


Howdy from Texas
JSheffield




 

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The alignment at 12 0'clock looks ok but at 6 0'clock it's not. I'd ask for a new one IMO.
 

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Yeah that looks off. Im a seiko guy through and through but i do notice qc problems like this and it kills me. Ive never purchased from an AD before so that might be it.

But you should def return because itll eat at you for sure. Whats shipping cost? You might be able to raise a stink and get shipping covered but ive heard others say sellers will agree and then bungle the whole refund process.

The miaalignment happens all the time...welcome to the worst hobby ever!

Maybe someone can chime in on modifying to align? I think the ring clips on at pin holes? Not sure.


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By "chapter ring" I'm assuming you mean bezel insert? The chapter ring is between the dial & the crystal..........I can't see it in the pictures. Bezel insert misalignment is kind of common, it happens.

You can fix it but that may be beyond your ability or desire = return it. Fixing it involves removing the bezel, removing the insert from the bezel, attaching the bezel & then aligning bezel insert. This isn't complicated but it does require some effort & Creation should make it right.
 

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Both the chapter ring and the bezel insert appear to be incorrectly printed. No amount of adjustment is going to line everything up!

I have to wonder if it is a real Seiko...

Send it back.
 

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By "chapter ring" I'm assuming you mean bezel insert? The chapter ring is between the dial & the crystal..........I can't see it in the pictures. Bezel insert misalignment is kind of common, it happens.

You can fix it but that may be beyond your ability or desire = return it. Fixing it involves removing the bezel, removing the insert from the bezel, attaching the bezel & then aligning bezel insert. This isn't complicated but it does require some effort & Creation should make it right.
He does mean 'chapter ring' which is not what Seiko calls it though. It's the ring around the edge of the dial that has the minute marks on it.
The chapter ring matches the bezel insert perfectly. Since they all line up at 12 o'clock, it is not possible to make any adjustments that would fix the problem since there is no adjustments that can move the chapter ring and bezel sideways. Simple rotation will not bring everything into alignment :-(
 

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Chapter rings seem to be Seiko Achilles heel. My SKX007 as misaligned chapter ring, so does my SKX009, SKX399 and my Sumo. Seiko really have problems with that, even though none of my watch es are as bad as the one shown.

Soon, I'll open them up and see how they are installed and I will try to rectify that. For now, mine are minor and it's not really apparent, but I know they are not aligned.
 

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I just checked the Shogun on my wrist and the chapter ring is off at the 6 position but not at the 12 position. Wow, I love this watch and never really noted this. It looks minor to me so will leave it as is. It keeps excellent time and is pleasing otherwise.
 

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He does mean 'chapter ring' which is not what Seiko calls it though. It's the ring around the edge of the dial that has the minute marks on it.
The chapter ring matches the bezel insert perfectly. Since they all line up at 12 o'clock, it is not possible to make any adjustments that would fix the problem since there is no adjustments that can move the chapter ring and bezel sideways. Simple rotation will not bring everything into alignment :-(
I did mean chapter ring...and you're so right about the rotation not fixing it all. Just took another look at the OP's pics and aligning one would just throw the other more out of whack.

Just checked my SRP453 that was driving me nuts...all along I thought a rotation would be possible some day--Nope. Same problem as you can align one but not both.

The despair is settling in oh so heavily...
 

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THe Bezel and chapter ring appear to be in the correct position. To me it looks like the dial is shifter or crocked or manufactured poorly. As other have mentioned it looks good at the top, but off at the bottom. If the bottom of the dial could repositioned a half mm to the left, I think all would line up nicely. My vote would be to return for and exchange or refund and buy somewhere else.
 

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On the pics, it seems like the dial is not straight. Like said in previous post, you can see that their is more space between the dot and the chapter ring on the lower left than the lower right. Might be a combination of badly aligned dial with chapter ring.
 

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Chapter rings seem to be Seiko Achilles heel.......
Agreed!

From what i have seen around various WUS forums and elsewhere, Seiko does have an issue with the rehaut/chapter ring alignment and/or symmetry of several lower-mid end models. I have seen quite a number of people posting pics of their new pieces over the last year or two (or three) and some of them have noticed and mentioned an alignment issue but some have not mentioned it and i suspect possibly not noticed it. (Of the pieces i see i try to discount all the ones where there is reasonable doubt such as it may be the camera angle, parallax, etc, etc.

I note two main issues:
1) Simple misalignment where all the markers are equally out of alignment.
2) Those where some markers on the same dial are better aligned than others. (inconsistent symmetry)


I noticed many of the 50th Anniversary Seiko 5 models from last year were particularly badly affected. (and not just from pics, I saw many of them up-close at AD's.)

Check the inner 24hr markers AND the red triangle of the rehaut at 3 o,clock on this example. Note the 6 o'clock triangle seems better aligned than the 3 o'clock. This indicates the printing symmetry is inconsistent and so not correctable by a simple realignment.

(Pics borrowed from a browse through the excellent Yeomans Blog and so many of the pics are of BN pieces taken at local AD's or purchased BN from AD's.)








This Orient below may possibly be the angle.....but i doubt it.


Alpinist SARB017 (pic from WUS)


I have seen several Sumos, Shoguns and others with these issues, some only slightly out but some of them very noticeable.
Its the one reason which has prevented me from purchasing a Shogun sight unseen for 3 years now. For an approx $1k timepiece to have such noticeably poor rehaut alignment/symmetry is simply not acceptable for me, but of course, ymmv!

I have great admiration and respect for Seiko, not least for their value, reliability, durability and build quality. With such massive production volumes, of course you will get a certain % which slip through QC as with any volume Watch Co. And yes, those which are not 'brand new' could possibly have been tampered with......But lets be honest, in all probability that would be a very low % of those showing alignment issues. I really don't think there are resellers out there busy inadvertently (or intentionally) realigning/misaligning Seiko rehauts.
There is also the argument that the Internet highlights/magnifies small QC issues and a few people complaining gives the wrong impression of the scale of a problem. Yes, valid point, BUT several that i have seen are of pics by proud owners who don't mention their misalignment and i feel several if not all are probably unaware of it.

So does that make it a non issue? For some people, probably, but for me, No.
Is this issue a minor one? Again perhaps for many people, yes its minor. However i don't think Seiko have meticulously nurtured a reputation for quality with vfm for over 100 years by allowing such QC issues to be ongoing and/or to be regarded as within acceptable tolerances. After all, there is an awful lot of competition out there!

Whilst i admire and respect Seiko hugely, I don't consider myself a mindless fan boy. Imho the misalignment/symmetry issue has been cropping up too often of late.
So come on Seiko, please step-up, get a grip and get it sorted out for those of us who notice and care about it. I would not want to restrict myself to only buying Seiko's with rotating chapter rings. ;-) !








 

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I had the same experience with Creation Watches, and it took them two weeks to approve a return, and they required me to pay for postal charges. $25 down the drain. The customer service was horrible, and I realize that we are on different time zones, but taking 4 days to respond is ridiculous. My 6 hour marker was a few mm off, and looked horrible. The minute hand was also deformed at the tip. In-house QC should be stepped up a notch.
 

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As other have mentioned it looks good at the top, but off at the bottom. If the bottom of the dial could repositioned a half mm to the left, I think all would line up nicely.

I tried with all my strengh to turn/stretch the dial to reposition it half mm on the bottom and leave it as is at 12.
Nothing to do!

I haven't unearthly powers. :-(

That could be the reason? :-d
 
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