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This pretty much says it all. But wait...!

Since I own both (for the moment) I thought it might be fun to compare two mid-priced Japanese automatic divers, the Seiko SBDC001 (nicknamed the Sumo by the WIS crowd) and the Orient WV0031EL (known as the M-Force, from the printing on the dial.)



The Seiko SBDC001 Sumo



The Orient WV0031EL M-Force​

First, the similarities: both are Japanese automatics with manufacture movements. Both are designed for scuba diving, and meet ISO standards. Both are big, heavy, tool watches. The Sumo's street price is about $600 US, and the M-Force is around $500, so they're both in the same price ball park, although it appears a little more difficult to get the Sumo, it being a JDM product, whereas there seem to be plenty of e-tailers who sell the M-Force, which might explain the price difference.

Together:



The Sumo is a bit smaller of the two, measuring 44.35mm three-nine, 48.11mm with crown, 50mm lug to lug, and 13.9mm tall. The M-Force is 46.21mm three-nine, 51.5mm with crown, 51mm lug to lug, and 14.5mm tall. Both watches have the iconic Japanese crown at the four position. Both are rated at 200 meters, and both have the term "Air Diver" on the case. Both watches hand-wind and hack.

Dials

The biggest difference, obviously, is the Seiko's dial is black and the Orient's is orange. Other differences: the Orient has the power reserve. Some like the PR indicator, others don't. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's a bit more important to have this complication on a watch that doesn't handwind. The Seiko's dial is somewhat less cluttered. The Seiko also has slightly fatter hands and a larger lume pip on the seconds hand than the Orient. The hour markers are also a bit larger on the Seiko. Combined, this gives the Sumo a little better low-light legibility:



While the Orient's dial is a little cluttered, it's perfectly legible. Both watches easily pass the Conjurer-quick-glance-inside-a-dark-car test. One issue with the Orient's dial: it moves! When you unscrew the crown and pull it all the way out to set the time, you can actually see the dial move ever-so-slightly.

Bezels

The Seiko's bezel is a standard aluminum insert with a divers scale. It's partially shrouded by the case sides, so it's a little difficult to turn unless you have your fingers at the twelve and six positions. It turns superbly, with almost no backtracking. It feels like a high-quality bezel should.

The Orient's bezel is what appears to be a two-piece construction, with a black IP inner insert and a stainless steel outer flange. I should note that the example I own I bought second hand, and a previous owner had the outer flange bead-blasted. Standard NIB M-Forces will have a shiny polished outer flange. The Orient's bezel feels less substantial. There is more backtracking. It is also more difficult to read at a glance.

Cases

The Sumo has one of the most beautiful cases you're likely to find at anything close to it's price. It's got a mix of high-polished and brushed surfaces; the case itself is fluted and the machining is top-notch. I've seen a very good comparo with the Sumo vs. the Omega Planet Ocean, and considering the price difference, the Sumo held it's own.

The Orient's case is well made, a little more utilitarian that the Sumo's. It's got nice architecture and it's well machined. Here's a pic of the Sumo's case, with crown, compared to the Orient's:

Sumo:




M-Force:



A bit of a draw, here. I like them both, although the Sumo's case obviously has far more hand work that went into it.

Bracelets

Here's where the Sumo starts jumping way ahead. It's bracelet is very good (although not as well made as the case, however.) There's a lot of angst out there concerning the Seiko's bracelet--many guys otherwise love the watch but get PO'ed about the bracelet, thinking it too narrow for the watch (it's about 20mm.) I personally don't mind it; I think it holds the case to the wrist fine, and I appreciate the fact that a slightly slimmer bracelet sheds a few grams of weight. The endlings are solid:



And it's nicely made, with a nice fluid drape:



And the clasp, which may well be the exact same one used on the famous Monster, is all right, but cheap. It does offer a westsuit extension:



The Orient's bracelet is, well, a piece of crap. There's really no other way to say it. It's cheap, it's flimsy, it's got hollow endlinks:





And worse of all, it binds:



One thing I can say for it, at least it stays together, unlike the first example I owned, which popped pins like nuts, something other M-Force owners reported as well. Both Seiko and Orient use the totally stupid pin-and-collar system, but Seiko's works, and on at least some of the M-Forces shipped, the Orient system doesn't.

Build Quality

Again, the Sumo wins. The quality of the Sumo is so high that it makes one wonder how Seiko was able to get it out the door at six hundred bucks retail and make any money on it. To get something of it's quality with a Swiss name on it, you'd be looking north of a couple of grand. It sits well on the wrist, it looks far more expensive than it is.

The M-Force feels like a five hundred dollar watch, or somewhat less when you focus on the bracelet. It does have a few things going for it that the Sumo doesn't, however; you get a sapphire crystal with the Orient, while the Seiko uses (I guess) Hardlex mineral. The two Orients I owned have both been extremely accurate, within a few seconds a day, while the Sumo is about +8-9 seconds a day. Also, the Orient, even with everything that's going against it, is a cool watch, and it's not a terrible one, either.

Overall, I suppose it all comes down to personal preference. If you're looking for a quality Japanese auto-diver, save up another hundred bucks and buy the Sumo. If the dinky bracelet will drive you nuts, spring for the M-Force. Buy what you like, but the Sumo pretty much mops the floor with the Orient.
 

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Go Sumo!

Although I sold mine and kept the 007, I still love the piece for its fit and finish, especially for its price range.

This is purely subjective, but I felt that there was something off about the Sumo, aesthetically speaking. Maybe it's the large font size among a couple of minor contributing factors, but the piece felt like it's imbalanced in design.
 

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cool comparo+picks

on a side note, ottovon you are everywhere today, my lord. every thread i peek at it you have a reply lol. im jealous you had the day off today ;s
 

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cool comparo+picks

on a side note, ottovon you are everywhere today, my lord. every thread i peek at it you have a reply lol. im jealous you had the day off today ;s
Haha, you're right. I don't often get the chance to do nothing but relax and browse WUS so I'm letting loose. :D
 

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I thought of doing the same comparison when I owned that Orient {bead blasted the bezel after damaging it, you can see the gouges, the bezel action was as good as the Sumo before it got banged up} The orient has a sapphire crystal which survived the damage much better than the glass on the Seiko {I know because I damaged the first SBDC005 I had, Hardlex and rocks don't mix well} Both have pretty sad excuses for bracelets with the Orient being a bit worse but at least it's wider which in my opinion makes the case look more symmetrical.
Before I remade my decision to go titanium
6333122457_c0e8e92510_z.jpg
Over all I like the Orient better than the Sumo but the Sumo has a better bezel for actual diving because the shroud keep it a bit better protected from getting bumped off of set.
6333874554_ae9fcd9ff5_z.jpg
6333118815_f259d3835b_z.jpg
Orient could improve the bezel and have a better watch for the real world {less writing on the dial would help too}
6333112197_d214cb8a71_z.jpg
You can put the Orient on mesh {Omega here} and get past the bracelet
6315342435_7b3828d394_z.jpg
If it weren't for the locator pin this is how I would have worn it.
6315848130_5761d3da12_z.jpg
I have a new "Summer" orange dial on the way, in Ti.
 

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As someone who has owned two Sumos and sold them both, I still have to say they are of somewhat ridiculous quality for the price range. I just couldn't get into it; the orange dial was a bit too orange and the green lume ruined the blue dial for me. And, unless you wear it on the mediocre bracelet or a NATO, the distance of the lug holes from the case make aftermarket leather or rubber straps annoying to have.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I thought of doing the same comparison when I owned that Orient {bead blasted the bezel after damaging it, you can see the gouges, the bezel action was as good as the Sumo before it got banged up} The orient has a sapphire crystal which survived the damage much better than the glass on the Seiko {I know because I damaged the first SBDC005 I had, Hardlex and rocks don't mix well} Both have pretty sad excuses for bracelets with the Orient being a bit worse but at least it's wider which in my opinion makes the case look more symmetrical.
Before I remade my decision to go titanium
View attachment 676394
Over all I like the Orient better than the Sumo but the Sumo has a better bezel for actual diving because the shroud keep it a bit better protected from getting bumped off of set.
View attachment 676395
View attachment 676396
Orient could improve the bezel and have a better watch for the real world {less writing on the dial would help too}
View attachment 676397
You can put the Orient on mesh {Omega here} and get past the bracelet
View attachment 676398
If it weren't for the locator pin this is how I would have worn it.
View attachment 676399
I have a new "Summer" orange dial on the way, in Ti.
Lexvil, could you please expand on the damage that occured to the bezel of the M-Force? I hadn't known about this before, and I thought that the bead-blasting was simply a modification. Obviously, if the watch had been damaged, this whole comparo isn't really fair. All that was disclosed to me was the mod, nothing about damage.
 

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Cosmetic mostly but when I put it back after blasting the bezel it didn't feel as smooth when turning. I always felt the bezel was to bling so when it got scratched it seemed like a good time to tone it down. I'm sure there are others who have both watches that can comment on the bezel smoothness better than I can.
Lexvil, could you please expand on the damage that occured to the bezel of the M-Force? I hadn't known about this before, and I thought that the bead-blasting was simply a modification. Obviously, if the watch had been damaged, this whole comparo isn't really fair. All that was disclosed to me was the mod, nothing about damage.
 

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Pretty interesting read. Well done, I like watch comparison like that. I've never been a fan of Orient divers, simply because I don't like their aesthetics, but I'm sure they are very good and solid watches. I do like the PR a lot, i just wish they could center it so it doesn't off balance the dial the way it does. I think PR is a great complication to have on auto divers watches and wish more would use it.

I also wish my Sumo had a sapphire crystal, but I'm fine with the domed hardlex, it looks very good and does a perfect job under water (besides the fact hardlex and rocks do not mix together). I'm a big fan of the Sumo, one of the most impressive watch I've seen in it's price range and up. That case is simply gorgeous to me. Actually, I like everything about the watch, even the bracelet ; ) I have a $2000 Swiss watch with much cheaper bracelet than the Sumo and I've seen multi thousand watches with crappy bracelets (a lot worst that the Sumo), so no shame there for me. The pins and collar system used on it and many Seiko Divers or even Omegas, is among the safest system you can get and much more secure than screws IMO. Yes, screwed links look good, but much easier to lose, unless you loctite them and then good luck to take them off if you have to. I have no problem to adjust the pins and collars now that I know how it works. The first time I did the bracelet on my Monster though, I didn't understand what was happening : )

Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison, I enjoyed it! Two great watches it seems!
 

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thanks for this review - the OP has definitely convinced me to stick to my Seiko 200M watches (7S26 and 4R36)

(although i also do appreciate my Casio MDV-106)

willie
on the sunny and warm Gulf of Mexico
 

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Can anyone chime in on this? I've been wanting a OS300m for a while but this is a bit more wallet friendly while still having the power reserve, apparently this wears bigger too.

sel06001h-12.jpg

 

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I will admit that I do not have a Sumo, there is a reason. the Orient SEL06001B. Why would I spend more to get less? The Orient from almost all reviews the above included appears to be better regulated, it includes the added complication of power reserve indicator and has a lower price tag. The bracelet is solid ends on the SEL06001, but I do not care as I prefer leather straps when not in the water and rubber or NATO when I am. Why pay more for less?
 

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I will admit that I do not have a Sumo, there is a reason. the Orient SEL06001B. Why would I spend more to get less? The Orient from almost all reviews the above included appears to be better regulated, it includes the added complication of power reserve indicator and has a lower price tag. The bracelet is solid ends on the SEL06001, but I do not care as I prefer leather straps when not in the water and rubber or NATO when I am. Why pay more for less?
Rehashing an old thread to state this? Well, I disagree with you and so does this good review. The sumo is the better watch like it or not

https://www.watchuseek.com/f74/impressions-orient-beast-sel06001b-conjurer-vs-carl-735815.html
 
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