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I just bought a new Citizen Promaster Diver's BN0100-51E "Excalibur". Beautiful watch, but one thing bothers me: the seconds hand seems to be about a quarter-tick off.

Is this normal? Would you try for an exchange if you were me?

My other Citizen Eco-drive watches are a Nighthawk and a Blue Angels World Chronograph A-T. The seconds hands on both those watches hit the marks exactly, all the way around the dial. Did I just get lucky with those?

Thanks in advance for the advice! By the way, has this watch been discontinued by Citizen? I'm not finding it on their site, and it seems to be sold out at some dealers.
 

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Same for most quartz. Some do hit the markers. Some don't.

Equally some people are bothered by it and some aren't. Of my three quartz watches one hits the markers exactly, one is almost exactly half a second out and one doesn't have markers anyway.
 

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I've had good luck with Seiko quartz hitting hitting the mark, from SNE divers, up to my Tuna. Even a 35 year old SilverWave I have lines up well. Citizen's have been generally off the mark for me... I've had 4 Excalibur's, one lined up out of all of them. 5-6 various other citizen's didn't line up either. A BM6401 I have now lines up well, and a PMT56 I have incoming, looks pretty close in the seller's pics.

Unless the seller will hand pick one for you, it's a roll of the dice for an exchange. 1-2 of mine were off at the halfway point, so you could get worse...
 

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Its an issue for me every time I consider getting a Quartz watch !

This issue has been posted about a lot and I think Brad has probably summed up the reality of the situation...but I still expect the seconds hands to hit the minute markers or rather it does bother me and Im not sure I can live with one that doesnt.

Thats not strictly true - I do have some leeway on this as long as it hits most of then bang on or at the very least the cardinal points. I might even be able to live with one that only hit the 12 oclock spot dead on and then ticked 60 seconds.:think:

What I cannot abide is when the second hand is either side of each minute marker and especially at 12 oclock.

People talk about the graceful sweep of the mechanical second hand - for me the beauty of a quartz watch can be seen in the precision of the second hand hitting the minute markers.

I have been lucky - I have 3 Citizen Eco drives and they all hit the minute markers.

Well the Excalibur hits most of them - depends on the angle of the watch when Im looking:-d


This was the first one that I bought and the cheapest - the minute markers are on the dial not on the rehaut. This arrangement actually accentuates any misalignment on a quartz watch. I bought it from Argos and never thought about the second hand alignment ie didnt check it first so I was lucky I guess.

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap

Same with the Excalibur (hey thats the angle!)

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap

Then I bought a BM6400-00e from the internet. The second hand was off :-( The question was could I live with it. The answer was "No" I just kept looking at the second hand missing the minute markers and willing it to hit them correctly this time around . But as I was informed on the subject by WUS - If you buy one thats bang in it will always be bang on - if its off it will always be off.

So it went back but the calling of that watch got stronger - and its so cheap so months later I bought it again knowing that I might have to live with it being off but as luck had it I didnt have to.

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap

Its not that clear from this picture because its not as easy to judge and is more forgiving on a quartz watch to have the minute markers in the rehaut. But the second hand its the apex of the inverted triangle at 12 oclock bang on which is the main thing.


In a previous thread someone wrote to Citizen re this issue - I cut and pasted the response for reference - thanks to the OP whose name escapes me.


I noticed you have a very nice looking new model coming out soon, the BN0151-09L. My question is about the photo for your online catalog showing the second hand missing the marks of the index. Does Citizen not consider the Promaster line a precision instrument, or is your quality control just that poor. I mean even McDonald's puts impossibly perfect pictures of their burgers up on the menu. Have you ever tried to count the seconds on a watch when the seconds hand hits between the markers? You can never tell if you are counting the second before or after the hand. Please don't let an amazing piece of technology be soiled by something as simple as placing the hands properly.

Here is the response returned in less than two hours and very kindly written...

Hello,

Thank you for your email.

In viewing the picture displayed online, the second hand appears to be hitting the marker.

However, with regard to a given model's second hand, this may be considered within factory specifications. This is due to gear play, dial imprinting and position of the watch. The actual specification is for the hands to hit dead on at 12:00, but other alignment may be to one side or the other of the indice.

There are a variety of factors that come into consideration when comparing hand to dial marker accuracy. While position of the watch has some affect on this, manufacturing tolerances in the various components play a greater role. There are acceptable tolerances within the gear mesh, dial imprinting/application, dial ring imprinting (and mounting position) as well as tolerances within the dial fitting to the movement itself.

When all of these come into play, these tolerances can sometimes compliment each other and other times work against each other. It is for these reasons that there are some pieces within a series that are dead on, some that hit most marks, some that hit half the marks, some that hit some of the marks, etc.

It is only when you get to the very high end of the product line (aka Campanola and Exceed) that the acceptable tolerances become "tighter" so to speak.

Best regards,

Kimberly H.
Customer Service
After Sales Service Department
Citizen Watch Company of America
1000 W. 190th Street
Torrance, CA 90502
 

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Of my two quartz watches that I wear, a Tuna and Citizen nighthawk, the hands comes nearly dead on in the Citizen and the Tuna is perfect as far as my eye can see. I do have a Luminox (battery is dead) where it ticked almost right in the middle. Never bothered me, but I can see how it would be annoying.
 

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The second hand not hitting the markers was what actually drove me to try automatics, and I've not looked back since. I think to purchase another quartz I'd have to personally inspect it before I bought, or it'd have to be a very minimalist design, with no indices at all.
 

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what i've never understood is..... humans designed and created quartz watches..... so how come they can't create them to point exactly to the second??? it only has to click 60 times, how do quartz movements not have a 'zeroed-out' position, that always points perfectly to 12? and then the 60 ticks bring it back around. I just don't understand it. there are quartz watches that cost thousands, yet this type of thing can happen on one of those quartz? It doesn't bug me per se if a quartz is a fraction off, what bothers me is that 'sometimes it's just like that'. WE BUILT THEM. THEY SHOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR =)
 

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In a previous thread someone wrote to Citizen re this issue - I cut and pasted the response for reference - thanks to the OP whose name escapes me.

Glad to see my letter being put to use. I learned a lot after posting that, about quartz watches and that having an opinion on the internet is bad.
 

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Like others have said - some do and some don't. My SUN021 that I'm wearing now comes up short of the markers and TBH replying to this thread was the first time I've noticed it.
 

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I am very nit picky about this on $1000+ Quartz, but if it's an affordable $100 to $500 piece I can live with it. Still sucks though, but that's the nature of the beast.
 

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I used to be bothered by this as well but have accepted the fact that it's always a possibility specially when you're buying online without a chance to inspect it. I have since lowered my standard to at least the 12:00 marker being hit accurately :)
 

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Of my Citizens, two were good out of the box (a BN0000 and BV1085) while one other (a BM8180) had the seconds hand hitting almost perfectly in the middle of the markers - I took it back to the shop I bought it from and the replacement was fine.

I will admit that none of these were absolutely perfect for each marker - as mentioned in the email quoted previously there is some play in the gearing and so on - watch the hands do a few revolutions and the error at any one indice will vary slightly, but that is just a small amount of play back and forth, which you would never notice unless you look for it.

Whether it is an issue is up to you - personally I would have no qualms whatsoever returning a watch with a badly out of alignment hand (as I have done) but at the same time I am not going to be overly critical in things I know are just part of the tolerance - it is up to you to decide what tolerance you are happy with.
 

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The short answer is no.

The long answer is heck no.
 

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what i've never understood is..... humans designed and created quartz watches..... so how come they can't create them to point exactly to the second???
It's totally possible. It just requires a movement with zero slack and a seconds-hand that is mounted flawlessly. Both of those things are available -- you just have to spend more money for them.
 

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Doesnt casio have a setting that aligns the second hand correctly?

I seem to remember it on my dual analogue/digital wave ceptor watch.
I dont have time to read the manual at the moment.
The model is WVA-430U if anyone wants to have a look before the weekend when i have some more time
 
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Doesnt casio have a setting that aligns the second hand correctly?

I seem to remember it on my dual analogue/digital wave ceptor watch.
I dont have time to read the manual at the moment.
The model is WVA-430U if anyone wants to have a look before the weekend when i have some more time
I think some Citizen models have a feature called Perfex that keeps the hands calibrated to the markers. It's probably a related feature.
 

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Same for most quartz. Some do hit the markers. Some don't.

Equally some people are bothered by it and some aren't. Of my three quartz watches one hits the markers exactly, one is almost exactly half a second out and one doesn't have markers anyway.

True. I have had really good luck with Seiko and really bad luck with Citizen. I won't keep a watch that doesn't hit, consequently I no longer own any Citizen.
 
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