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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Is the Brazilian Domestic Market - Made in Brazil? or Made in Japan?What do you think Poseidon in comparison with Pro Saturation?
All made in Brazil.

I never handled a pro saturation, I can suppose it’s way better in specs, finishing and materials. Price is quite different, doesn’t seem a fair comparison.

Cheers


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These Brazilian models are lacking fine details if you look at them closely. They seem to be “rough” finish. The North American and Japanese models are finished such a fine details. Look at the lions logo:




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These Brazilian models are lacking fine details if you look at them closely. They seem to be “rough” finish. The North American and Japanese models are finished such a fine details. Look at the lions logo:




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No, it isnt. It's fine as any other you mentioned. Maybe its you that dont know how a digital picture works. My advice: do a little research before talking what you dont know.


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Johnny,

Thanks for the translation offer. My rant is about Orient Brazil being prohibited from selling BDM watches internationally. I've been beating that drum (thread) for several years.
 

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Johnny,

Thanks for the translation offer. My rant is about Orient Brazil being prohibited from selling BDM watches internationally. I've been beating that drum (thread) for several years.
Well, if you trust a foreing stranger, you can buy it and send it to my house. I´d send it to you, no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Johnny,

Thanks for the translation offer. My rant is about Orient Brazil being prohibited from selling BDM watches internationally. I've been beating that drum (thread) for several years.
Do you say that Orient Brasil is prohibited by Orient Japan? The operation in Brazil has always been small, made to serve the local market and take advantage of the tax benefits of the Manaus free zone. I do not believe they have production capacity for export. Instead of prohibited, maybe unable? Just wondering.
 

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Maybe orient Brazil is not part of orient Japan. Orient Japan is probably licensed the brand and sells the movements to Orient Brazil and they can do their own design for the local market only. Just like coke or Pepsi that license their brand to make drink for the local market around the world.


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Orient Brazil is part of Orient Global Network


Orient Brazil is unique in the Orient world, it licenses the brand then produces local designs. From what I've learned Japan supplies movements, and probably other bits, Orient Brazil sources cases, dials etc.

Until recently the only Japan sourced models were Orient Star. Brazil did produce it version of the Royal Orient. Nearly all the autos were 469 caliber.

The current catalog lists the Kamasu, Kanno, Mako/Ray and Bambino from the international catalog plus a large number of domestic models using the new F49 caliber the the venerable 469.


15883529




15883533



15883549


SeaTech 500 Titanium
 

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Orient Brazil is part of Orient Global Network


Orient Brazil is unique in the Orient world, it licenses the brand then produces local designs. From what I've learned Japan supplies movements, and probably other bits, Orient Brazil sources cases, dials etc.

Until recently the only Japan sourced models were Orient Star. Brazil did produce it version of the Royal Orient. Nearly all the autos were 469 caliber.

The current catalog lists the Kamasu, Kanno, Mako/Ray and Bambino from the international catalog plus a large number of domestic models using the new F49 caliber the the venerable 469.


View attachment 15883529



View attachment 15883533


View attachment 15883549

SeaTech 500 Titanium
Yes Orient Brazil is part of orient global network which means they are a preferred partner just like a Microsoft or HP preferred partner. Orient Brazil is an independent company for Brazil market only. Epson wouldn’t allow their watches to be sold or distributed outside Brazil markets which would compete with Orient Japan.


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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Some public information shows that Seiko is the owner of Orient in Brazil. Since 2018 is the direct owner. Before that, the control was probably exercised through its Brazilian subsidiary Orient Relógios do Brazil. The rules for participation by foreigners in Brazilian companies are quite complex, but the holding structure shows that Orient do Brasil is not a simple distributor or preferred partner:

ORIENT RELOGIOS DA AMAZONIA LTD is a holding. Its shareholders are:
  • ORIENT RELOGIOS DO BRASIL SA: PARTNER, since 03/11/1978
  • SEIKO EPSON CO.: PARTNER LEGAL ENTITY ABROAD, since 15/01/2018


    Orient Relogios da Amazonia Ltda (Orient) is headquartered in MANAUS, AM, it is 42 years old and was founded on 11/03/1978. Its registration status is ACTIVE and its main economic activity is the manufacture of chronometers and watches.

    Orient Relogios do Brasil SA, headquartered in SAO PAULO, SP, it is 54 years old and was founded on 10/07/1966. Its registration status is ACTIVE and its main economic activity is Holdings of Non-Financial Institutions.

    Seiko Epson Co. (Seiko Epson)
    headquartered abroad, it is 4 years old and was founded on 02/16/2017. Its registration status is ACTIVE and its main economic activity is Holdings of Non-Financial Institutions.

    Source: CNPJ: 05.830.195/0001-10 - Orient Relogios da Amazonia Ltda - Informe Cadastral
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
From wikipedia in portuguese: Orient (relógio) – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre

Brazil was the first country to have an Orient Watch manufacturer outside its country of origin. In Manaus in 1978 with employees trained in Japan. From then on, the brand became the largest manufacturer of automatic watches in the country and one of the most remembered brands by Brazilians, which ended up earning several awards from Top of Mind (a popular survey of brands carried out annually). For this reason, many people believed that the brand was Brazilian, due to its popularity. In the northeastern region, especially in the interior, it is very common to see Orient 3-star automatic watches on the wrist of older people and field workers.
 

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Johnny,

Thanks for the info, the change in 2017 to Epson-Seiko has had an impact on Orient as a whole.

If you look at the back of new Orients they are all marked "Epson". From my understanding, Orient is wholly owned by Epson, not Seiko. Epson & Seiko jointly own SII, while other holdings (printers, computers, instruments) are held by Epson or jointly w/ other holding entities.

Epson has allowed Orient Japan autonomy in it's markets, including Brazil. What's unclear is what Epson may plan for Orients' future products, since Orient is small compared w/ Seiko.

OTOH, Epson may decide to maintain Orient's autonomy as "Epsons' watch brand" competing w/ Seiko for a limited automatic watch market. Orients' model line-up is wide and frequent 're-issue' models continue. Further, look at the investment of the F6-F7-F8 calibers and more exclusive "Prestige" releases. Seems that Epson is willing to invest in Orient for now.

BTW, I did spot a Brazilian seller on the 'Bay posting BNIB Netuno/Neptuno divers, from Brazil..

Orient Diver Netuno Neptune Auto Brazil Only # 469ss073 P1sx # Rare # Black Dial | eBay
 
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