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It's interesting though, the only one I tested also got exactly +12 dial up on the timegrapher--I can't recall the other stats, it was at the get together and pretty hectic.

I don't feel the need to really attack the Swatch, I'm just saying I don't understand it from a value perspective. Of course, you don't have to always be the best value to be worthwhile, tons of people buy what is perceived to be a less good value in any given market because they like how it looks more, they want to be different, maybe they value a particular property of the product more than most, and that's all fine. It's just that I'm seeing the Seiko 5 and entry level Orients to be radically better values, and I'm not just talking about the movement.

The watch is very interesting, and I was excited to see one in person and test it--I'm certainly not out to get it. But I remain skeptical of its legacy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
The watch is very interesting, and I was excited to see one in person and test it--I'm certainly not out to get it. But I remain skeptical of its legacy.
I agree about the fact that it is interesting and I admit I was probably a little harsh in the opening post after seeing that (somewhat biased) literal tear-down. Like you, I thought I would be interested in seeing it but found myself walking right past the display in Grand Central the other day. I'm sure Swatch will find plenty of uses for the R&D they've put into this, but the Sistem51 itself doesn't do much of anything for me.

What I am curious about is long-term accuracy and wear-and-tear of the components. I think this has been a great discussion so far and I'm curious to see what others with materials backgrounds have to say about it. As an engineer (computer) I realize that what sometimes seems silly to the lay-person is actually meticulously done design on the engineering end. Maybe that's the case here, but I'm just not seeing anything but a cheaper production method for Swatch with little benefit to us, the consumers.
 

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I wonder how the OP feels about the transition from vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I wonder how the OP feels about the transition from vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, etc...
I think of them the same way as the transition from mechanicals to quartz, a great leap forward...
 

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Did anyone bother to read the Europa Star article?

It completely contradicts the teardown, a teardown that is very biased non neutral and unprofessional, it is very apparent the person has an axe to grind;

here are some quotes from the Europa Star professional teardown.

First who are Europa Star:
Europa Star is the premier provider of international watch industry news and information. For 85 years, we have supplied watch retailers, watch distributors, watch designers, watch agents and watch manufacturers with news from the international watch industry

Who is Denis Asch:
a watchmaker passed a few years in the strict Rolex school an expert watchmaker from Geneva, Denis Asch (www.heure-asch.com)

Quotes:
The first tests were for water resistance.
The results were that the Sistem51 is perfectly water resistant, whether tested under pressure or not.

First observation: the watch stopped after 93 hours of operation, which is a lot for a self-winding watch.

Second observation: its amplitude is good

another Sistem51 tested, which had been worn for a month, showed much better results, “almost chronometer level”, according to Denis Asch, with a delta of 8 (-4 + 4 seconds/day).

these results are more than satisfactory.
Swatch has always offered the best reliability and quality for the money, with Rolex being a case apart

radical ingenuity

Denis Asch goes wide-eyed. He cannot believe it: the entire lever is in plastic, including the pallet stones, “this is the real prowess,”

90 hours of power reserve

very cunning, very intelligent

“What impresses me,” says Denis Asch, “is that such good precision is achieved"





Read more: SWATCH GROUP - Stripping down the SISTEM51 | Europa Star Magazine
Follow us: @EuropaStar on Twitter | worldwatchweb on Facebook
 

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"Seiko 5s <$100 on amazon.ca"
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I NEVER purchase a watch on the Black Market.

I ONLY purchase my pieces from AD's.

What does a System51 cost on the Black Market?
 

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"<$100 on amazon.ca"
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I NEVER purchase a watch on the Black Market.

What does a System51 cost on the Black Market?
Black Market?? Does anyone actually buy on the black market? Let's not talk about anything incriminating here, chaps. I go grey, personally, as do most people.

Anyway, a used sistem51 goes for about $120 on watchrecon, so I'd venture that a grey market one would be a little higher than that.

The market value for a seiko 5 just isn't very high. Sistem51 has a higher market value. That's all there is to it.
 

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I just dont understand that the watch can last 10+ years but obviously that hasnt been truely tested.

Seems like the watch industry is full of companies who will say what they want and hope no one goes in depth.
 

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Bazinga! I was waiting for someone to bring up the Tissot Astrolon. Another interesting tidbit ... even though it has a plastic pallet fork and escape wheel, there are still some out there in the wild keeping decent time after 40 odd years! Well, I know of at least a couple ...
 

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there is NO such thing as a "Grey Market"
the "Grey Market" IS a Black Market
reference the legal judgement against COSTCO by Omega.

AD's selling their extra pieces on Amazon IS Black Market, try to get a warranty from the manufacturer on an Amazon purchased piece.
 

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there is NO such thing as a "Grey Market"
the "Grey Market IS a Black Market"
reference legal judgment against COSTCO by Omega.

AD's selling their extra pieces on Amazon IS Black Market, try to get a warranty from the manufacturer on an Amazon purchased piece.
I found the black market on the first hit with google! Wow, I'm edgier than I thought.

Grey market (meriiam-webster):

a market employing irregular but not illegal methods; especially : a market that legally circumvents authorized channels of distribution to sell goods at prices lower than those intended by the manufacturer
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
there is NO such thing as a "Grey Market"
the "Grey Market" IS a Black Market
reference the legal judgement against COSTCO by Omega.

AD's selling their extra pieces on Amazon IS Black Market, try to get a warranty from the manufacturer on an Amazon purchased piece.
They're on LongIslandWatch, a forum sponsor, for <$100 as well. Are they a black market? Are you associating with a site that is sponsored by the "Black Market"? :p
 

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"a market employing irregular but not illegal methods"

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again; reference the legal court's judgement against COSTCO in favour of Omega; the courts said it is ILLEGAL for an AD to re-sell their pieces.
Period

the watches on Amazon or at COSTCO are/were ILLEGAL.
The first-sale doctrine plays an important role in U.S. copyright and trademark law by limiting certain rights of a copyright or trademark owner

Copyright law grants a copyright owner an exclusive right "to distribute copies"

The distribution right allows the copyright owner to seek redress from any member in the chain of distribution

The decision has been characterized as a loss for consumers in the sense that manufacturers will better be able to control the prices of their goods when the grey market cannot serve as competition




It was a typical Costco deal, almost too good to be true: Authentic Omega “Seamaster” watches, suggested retail price $1,995, on sale for just $1,299. Unfortunately, the watches bore a tiny, copyrighted globe emblem on the back. And that allowed lawyers for Omega owner Swatch Group to pounce. They sued Costco for copyright violation in July 2004, and won an injunction barring the warehouse retailer from selling the otherwise legit Omegas.

In 2013 the US Supreme Court sided with Omega.
The Supreme Court split down the middle in a rare 4-4 ruling upholding the lower court’s ruling against Costco

Costco was selling the watches it legitimately acquired outside the United States for about a 40% discount.

The Supreme Court said this is illegal.
 

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there is NO such thing as a "Grey Market"
the "Grey Market" IS a Black Market
reference the legal judgement against COSTCO by Omega.

AD's selling their extra pieces on Amazon IS Black Market, try to get a warranty from the manufacturer on an Amazon purchased piece.
Please cite where the 9th Circuit holds that all non-AD channels are black markets.
 

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"a market employing irregular but not illegal methods"

---
again; reference the legal court's judgement against COSTCO in favour of Omega; the courts said it is ILLEGAL for an AD to re-sell their pieces.
Period

the watches on Amazon or at COSTCO are/were ILLEGAL.
Interesting to note that it was Omega SA v Costco and not Omega v ENE limited (the grey market which costco bought the watches from). The case did not set a precedent, nor was it against a grey market setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
"a market employing irregular but not illegal methods"

---
again; reference the legal court's judgement against COSTCO in favour of Omega; the courts said it is ILLEGAL for an AD to re-sell their pieces.
Period

the watches on Amazon or at COSTCO are/were ILLEGAL.
The first-sale doctrine plays an important role in U.S. copyright and trademark law by limiting certain rights of a copyright or trademark owner

Copyright law grants a copyright owner an exclusive right "to distribute copies"

The distribution right allows the copyright owner to seek redress from any member in the chain of distribution

The decision has been characterized as a loss for consumers in the sense that manufacturers will better be able to control the prices of their goods when the grey market cannot serve as competition




It was a typical Costco deal, almost too good to be true: Authentic Omega “Seamaster” watches, suggested retail price $1,995, on sale for just $1,299. Unfortunately, the watches bore a tiny, copyrighted globe emblem on the back. And that allowed lawyers for Omega owner Swatch Group to pounce. They sued Costco for copyright violation in July 2004, and won an injunction barring the warehouse retailer from selling the otherwise legit Omegas.

In 2013 the US Supreme Court sided with Omega.
 
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