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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Check out this rare two-register Navitimer on our favorite auction web site.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mens-Br...387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280065783007

Seems like a rare two-register Navitimer with what looks like a Landeron 248 movement. Crown looks wrong, back looks wrong, all looks wrong actually. Seems like he likes to sell this stuff. Look what he got $1650 for below. Looks like an authentic early quad date case with wrong back and some sort of movement with a Valjoux 7733 bridge. Cobbled up mess methinks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280045219816

If I'm wrong please enlighten me. Happy New Year everyone!

Paul
 

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A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Paul,

You are of course right - both of these watches are appalling and virtually valueless fakes/frankens.

I tried to warn the buyer of the so-called Vintage Breitling Chronograph "Navitimer" and ebay would not let my message through - the sense of frustration I feel is immense. But how do I voice my dissatisfaction with the blocking of my message to ebay management? Only with great difficulty if at all - it is clear that they put every obstacle they can get away with to stop communication with them.

In the mean-time, some poor guy in Germany who as it happens has only had four deals on ebay (two of which were for nice 1980s Breitlings) is going to get badly burnt by this criminal watch dealer called ha5154 who says he is from San Jose, California.

I realise of course that every country has more than its share of scammers but is it not time that the US Federal authorities reined in ebay to force them to take measures to stop these criminal activities they are facilitating?

And I do not want to hear any more weasel words from or on behalf of ebay that they are doing all they can; it is very difficult; they are not the world's policemen; etc etc. In truth they are an extremely powerful and wealthy organisation who will do as much (as little!) as necessary to keep largely within the "law" and to keep the authorities off their backs - but IMHO they will only act if they are forced to. This is part of the dirty side of capitalism and our so-called "democracies".

In the absense of that, it is my belief that there needs to be an international watchdog organisation with real teeth put in place to oversee the excesses committed by, and poor ethical practices of, ebay. And while we're at it, let's have a banking watchdog to oversee the business practices of PayPal too (although that is a whole different story). I happen to know that even many Americans would support these views so why won't your politicians do something about it? Can we expect something better in 2007? I doubt it!

As a post-script, it is with a wry sense of sadness I notice that the buyer of the watch in the second link you posted has actually left positive feedback for the seller complimenting the watch! o|

Perhaps someone else would like to try to warn the buyer in your first link.

Regards,
Alan

Check out this rare two-register Navitimer on our favorite auction web site.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mens-Br...387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280065783007

Seems like a rare two-register Navitimer with what looks like a Landeron 248 movement. Crown looks wrong, back looks wrong, all looks wrong actually. Seems like he likes to sell this stuff. Look what he got $1650 for below. Looks like an authentic early quad date case with wrong back and some sort of movement with a Valjoux 7733 bridge. Cobbled up mess methinks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280045219816

If I'm wrong please enlighten me. Happy New Year everyone!

Paul
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Alan, I tried and was also blocked by ebay. Maybe the link googoo posted earlier will do some good. Cheers, Bob
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

I sent the buyer a message through Ebay, hope he can read English, with a reference to Jean-Michel's Navitimer site. Perhaps he'll do some more research before sending his money.

It does make me ill seeing all the junk that comes up on Ebay. Fake new stuff is not a suprise but the number of fake vintage watches is increasing especially from South American and Asian sellers. Buyers really need to do their homework even though the inclination to jump on what appears to be a "good deal" happens to us all. My last "jump" was with a UK seller in Cheltenham about six months ago. He had an Ebay ad selling a vintage Cal 11 white dialed Chronomat with a true vintage Chronomat model pictured. We made a "deal" and a week later what showed up at my house was the most horrble fake $10 Chronomat I've ever seen. What makes this transaction doubly disheartening was the fact I used to live in Cheltenham as a child many years ago and conversed with the seller about that and he seemed a nice chap. Since the watch in the picture on his ad wasn't what he sent I pointed out a refund was in order. He agreed and I sent the watchback and that's the last I heard from him. Ebay and PayPal refused to help me so I took this one on the chin.

You really have to be able to read between the lines, so to speak, when it comes to sellers. There are reputable people on Ebay that sell great watches but the dishonest sellers are increasing and Ebay needs to address this fact or watch their business dwindle.

Regards.

Paul
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Alan, I tried and was also blocked by ebay. Maybe the link googoo posted earlier will do some good. Cheers, Bob
Thanks for trying Bob!

Cheers,
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Paul,

Most Germans can read english and amongst younger people I think virtually all can. Also there are very good web translation services such as the free one on Google so I don't think understanding you will be a problem. Please let us know if you hear back from him - I would love to know that you got to him in time before he sent his payment.

Indeed there do seem to be a lot of fakes, frankens, and generally dodgy tarted up rubbish coming from the parts of the world you mention. I have seen many awful fakes from Vietnam and lots of frankens etc from Argentina but this sort of stuff originates in many other countries too.

As you say, doing your homework is key. But your story about this scumbag from Cheltenham is yet another scam - even easier to perpetrate than to cod up a dodgy watch... the old scam of 'post an image of a genuine watch and send a completely different one to the victim'. I am flabbergasted that ebay and PayPal refused to help in this situation; what happened to you is a perfect example of what I was railing against in my previous post. I can appreciate that it would be very awkward for you to take civil action or to get the law authorities involved given that you reside in the States and the crook is in England. I'm really sorry to hear this story... and if you can get taken anyone can.

It's a sad day for decency and ethics when we have to think that the only thing that would make ebay take a more ethical stance would be a perceived threat to their business. What does that say about corporate America?

Best wishes,
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Alan, you might remember the story I posted a couple of years ago on the forum about getting ripped off on a Breitling Chronospace from a seller here in the US. That was an Ebay transaction also. No watch showed up after payment was made but I had kept a copy of every email, money order, and postal receipt of the transaction. I phoned up the police department in the city he resided in, sent the copies to them, and they threw him in jail. Anyway, as a short recap since then, He was just released from prison in December. He's on parole and still is supposed to reimburse me for the money I sent before he's off parole. I did receive some funds back through Ebay on that one plus I also received a $25 check from the Department of Corrections from where he was jailed. Must have took him a year of stamping out vehicle license plates to make that much. ;-) The most satisfying aspect of all that was knowing I got him even if I don't receive a red cent back.

Lets hope for a transaction trouble free new year. (Amen)

Paul
 

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Re: A sad start to 2007 - ebay will not let my message through.........

Paul,

I must admit I had temporarily forgotten about that story - yeah there must be a lot of satisfaction in seeing someone convicted for his anti-social crimes. Pity you didn't get all the dosh back but as you say the scum no doubt had to toil for a long time to make that 25 bucks :)

So far the only bad one I've had on ebay was from a finger nail beautician in Austria who claimed not to have received the relatively small sum I sent her in Euros as cash which was signed for. The envelope was insured and it pained me a little that the Royal Mail repaid me but decided it was too much trouble and not cost-effective to pursue her... pity!

Yep fingers crossed for this year!

Cheers,
 
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