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Discussion Starter #1
I've been looking at a few watches to cap my modest collection (which is a JLC MUT Moon for dress and a DateJust II for daily wear) and I wanted a watch that was dressy yet had good water resistance, a nice power reserve (above 60hr), I need a date function, and I am drawn to the look of blue hands on a watch... So, a Marine 5817 ticks off all my boxes!.

However, I'm also seeing that Breguet uses an old F Piguet movement which requires frequent $1000 services (they recommend 3 years, 5 may be real-world).

Rolex just went to 10 years for their service interval and their new 3255 calibre (the 32xx will show up in many of their models eventually) is anti-magnetic to at least 1000 gauss, 70hr power reserve, has improved shock protection and a parachrom mainspring that is much, much more shock resistant than a typical spring. Also, it has improved accuracy to +2/-2 seconds...

Now, you may be saying to yourself that Breguet has been innovating as well and has a number of patents over the last 15 years to its credit. They have been working with silicon springs and various interesting things..

But, that doesn't seem to have come to the Marine 5817, which seems to be at least 15 years old in its current form (correct me if I'm wrong). And you might say, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but clearly some increased durability, anti-magnetism, increased service intervals, etc. would be welcome..

So, my question is If/When Breguet will update the 5817? And what form will that take? And how do I tell Marc Hayek to get to it and don't forget the 5817!.
 

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The F. Piguet 1150 movement in the Marine has certainly been around for quite a while, and has been used by several high end brands including Blancpain. My understanding is that it is considered an excellent movement in terms of accuracy and robustness; however, I do also understand it's not a favorite of watchmakers as it is apparently difficult to service due to its thinness and barrel design. For me, this isn't a watch I would send to a local watchmaker in any event, it would go back to the manufacturer.

Most high end watch manufacturers will recommend 3-5 year service intervals. If you wear the watch every day, that might be reasonable. If you don't, you might be comfortable stretching the interval further (this topic has been discussed ad naseum here). Personally, I will probably wait a bit longer than five years before sending mine in, as I don't wear it more than once a week or so. I can tell you that mine has been running plus or minus a couple of seconds since I bought it.

I'm not sure if/when the Marine will be updated; if they did update it, they'd probably increase the case size, which would be too bad--I like the present 39mm size.
 

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I've had the exact same reservations about the piece for the past three years now.

The Aqua Terra Good Planet announced at Basel this year and due out in a couple of months may also tick off all of your boxes...

omega at good planet.jpg

and it does contain a movement with silicon hairspring and advanced anti-magnetic properties, in addition to chronometer accuracy, FSB stability, co-axial novelty (of questionable legitimate value IMO), 60 hr PR, 150M WR, date fxn and blued hands. Titanium case and bracelet is a bonus.
 

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With some tweaks it'd be very high on my list. Somehow the whole just doesn't represent the sum of its parts for me. It doesn't seem quite as home as a UN for a sportier look on rubber for instance. I love their pilot line though. I'd also bang down my dealer's door for a JLC "date just" on a decent looking bracelet.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info on the movement, mclor! It's stuck around for a reason and it sounfs like a classic movement. I hope the look doesn't change at all if there's an update, not even a little. Well, okay, the lugs could change.

Thanks for the suggestion, aardvark! I'll check it out when it comes to the Omega boutique. I'm also looking hard at the Rolex Day Date 40. Those and the Breguet are basically the contenders now, until something else comes up.

And, honestlygreedy, I would be all over a JLC datejust on a bracelet!
 

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You may have seen my thread about my very recent purchase of a second hand 5817 Marine. I have to say these same thoughts did cross my mind as the Marine moved up and down the wishlist over the last year or so. After all most Piguet and Lemania based movements in Breguet's collection today have been updated with free sprung balances, silicon hairsprings and silicon escape wheels.

That said I find the 1150/517gg quite a beautiful movement with nicely shaped bridges by the standards of most comparable full rotor high end automatic calibers. It also appears very well finished although I've not yet had the chance to really put it under the macros lens and view the blown up photos.

In the end while I would have liked an updated escapement and hacking seconds, the overall package of the watch and its superb design were far too compelling for me.

Here is an interesting look at the manual winding version of the movement seen in an older Blancpain by the famously critical Walt Odets.

Lovely Blancpain 1106 Gets A New Back - Part 1 - TimeZone
 
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Discussion Starter #7
You may have seen my thread about my very recent purchase of a second hand 5817 Marine. I have to say these same thoughts did cross my mind as the Marine moved up and down the wishlist over the last year or so. After all most Piguet and Lemania based movements in Breguet's collection today have been updated with free sprung balances, silicon hairsprings and silicon escape wheels.

That said I find the 1150/517gg quite a beautiful movement with nicely shaped bridges by the standards of most comparable full rotor high end automatic calibers. It also appears very well finished although I've not yet had the chance to really put it under the macros lens and view the blown up photos.

In the end while I would have liked an updated escapement and hacking seconds, the overall package of the watch and its superb design were far too compelling for me.

Here is an interesting look at the manual winding version of the movement seen in an older Blancpain by the famously critical Walt Odets.

Lovely Blancpain 1106 Gets A New Back - Part 1 - TimeZone

I saw your thread and I hope you post more pictures!

Good points and I'll check out that timezone link.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Okay, I was told by someone that a Blancpain watch with the same F Piguet movement recently received a silicon hairspring. Does anyone know which model this is? I'll want to look into how the power reserve, etc. changed afterwards.

Also, I wrote to the Breguet boutique and asked. They wrote me back today and said their understanding was that the silicon hairspring will eventually find its way into all Breguet watches. They will ask Breguet HQ about when it will come to the 5817. I'll post their answer here.
 

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I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but I don't think changing the composition of the hairspring would significantly change the power reserve or the accuracy by itself. I guess Rolex is claiming around a 10-15% increase for one watch, but I haven't heard any other claims. The main benefit appears to be less (or no) need for lubrication, but not everyone agrees with that, and that wouldn't be terribly important unless you replaced other parts (like the escapement) as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but I don't think changing the composition of the hairspring would significantly change the power reserve or the accuracy by itself.... The main benefit appears to be less (or no) need for lubrication....
It's mostly anti-magnetism, AFAIK. It is less likely to deform over time, so stability (more than accuracy) is touted. The hairspring isn't lubricated. Poster may be thinking of co-axial design, maybe?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm hoping for anti-magnetism and increased resistance to shock (although, if it's big enough, I understand silicon can break). Further, the decreased friction hopefully leads to a bit longer service intervals. I'm expecting that changing the hairspring requires a few further upgrades and changes.

I see with the Blancpain watch which has the same F Piguet movement upgraded with silicon parts, it has a 68hr power reserve for the 4hz beat frequency, so at least the reserve shouldn't be going down. I hope, at least!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That Omega is a winner!!
I'll want to see it in person, sure. I actually like the Deville prestige in white gold more. However, for a guy with a datejust2 and a JLC MUT Moon, the goodplanet doesn't do so much besides add the GMT.

I think the Breguet at least can claim to be a step up from the Rolex and makes a nice cap on a modest collection, while still being versatile and more usable than a straight dress watch. Wouldn't you say?
 

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The F. Piguet 1150 movement in the Marine has certainly been around for quite a while, and has been used by several high end brands including Blancpain. My understanding is that it is considered an excellent movement in terms of accuracy and robustness;
I owned a Breguet and a Blancpain that use that very movement. Let me tell you it sucked in particular isochronism issue. Yes it's thin and large PR but very annoying. Actually that movement is what's preventing me from buying a Villeret.
 

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IMO Breguet Marine is not really that versatile. Yes it is available on rubber strap but I don't think it will look nice with shorts and slippers. Another "issue" is that it is quite thick compared to the other high end sport watch too. Last time I checked it is 12.xx mm thick while the other HE sport model like AP RO, PP nautilus and Aquanatu, VC OS automatic are all below 10mm thick. Movement wise I can't really comment because I do not own one.

Having say all of that if the Breguet really sings to you, just get it man.
 

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I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but I don't think changing the composition of the hairspring would significantly change the power reserve or the accuracy by itself. I guess Rolex is claiming around a 10-15% increase for one watch, but I haven't heard any other claims. The main benefit appears to be less (or no) need for lubrication, but not everyone agrees with that, and that wouldn't be terribly important unless you replaced other parts (like the escapement) as well.


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"Siliconization" normally comes with frequency increase, which makes adjustment & regulation easier, in which way, the precision and accuracy improve. You may hear that a lot of 28800 ETA goes out of mfr unadjusted, still running fine to ISO spec.

Silicon implementation has a lot of solid pros, but easily achieving grt accuracy wit high frequency isn't necessarily one of them when it comes to HE. A few HEer in the industry (ALS for one) still stick to 18000 or 21600, to demonstrate traditional watch making skill, but of course PR concern is one of other reasons behind.

To OP,

I have one none-silicon Breguet (lemania 2320 based) and one none-silicon Blaincpain (1150 based). They're running just fine and it never cross my mind that I should've got a silicon Breguet/Blaincpain.

As for when/if Silicon is coming to 5817, I don't think there is a time frame as long as Breguet stick to outsource strategy for 5817 cuz Blacpain is not likely to have plan to share FF bathy movements with Breguet.

5817 is a good package for what it costs and kind of one of its kind I would say. Go for it or find alternatives, just don't wait for its next gen.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I owned a Breguet and a Blancpain that use that very movement. Let me tell you it sucked in particular isochronism issue. Yes it's thin and large PR but very annoying. Actually that movement is what's preventing me from buying a Villeret.

Thanks for sharing! I admit I'm a little concerned although, of course, some folks have had good experiences, too. May I ask if you had your BP serviced and how was Swatchgroup in helping?

To OP,

I have one none-silicon Breguet (lemania 2320 based) and one none-silicon Blaincpain (1150 based). They're running just fine and it never cross my mind that I should've got a silicon Breguet/Blaincpain.

As for when/if Silicon is coming to 5817, I don't think there is a time frame as long as Breguet stick to outsource strategy for 5817 cuz Blacpain is not likely to have plan to share FF bathy movements with Breguet.

5817 is a good package for what it costs and kind of one of its kind I would say. Go for it or find alternatives, just don't wait for its next gen.
Thanks for the info on silicon upgrades. I'm not so convinced on diving in, since I like to be sure before a purchase like this. I know some folks don't like anything that seems like indecision ("just get it!"), but a little forethought and consideration generally adds to my satisfaction, rather than taking it away. So, your comments are much appreciated and I'm interested in hearing how Breguet will respond. Obviously, they can't say something that would impact sales of current stock, but maybe they can hint, I hope... okay probably not!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My BP has the similar calibre 6654 in it. While one of my less accurate watches its not annoyingly so.
Thanks, neighbor! I appreciate it. Every bit of feedback is useful. It doesn't sound like the movement is really so great, here.
 
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