WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I'm a first time poster and have started my watch hobby through space related watches.

I'm hoping to add a Sturmanskie Sputnik watch and have a few questions

There's a brand new watch based on sputnik iconography, it is a Sturmanskie quartz movement and is around £160 however I've found what must be original or reconditioned older models.

These are a Pobeda Sputnik ZIM with white face and white rotating sputnik circle where the 6 would be as a second hand (which is what the watch above I mention features), and a Podeba ZIM Pobeda 2602 with same sputnik feature however a gold inner disc. Apart from design and aesthetic is there any 'real' difference between them? The older watches have mechanical movements, something I don't own, and are half the price although used.

Can anyone help me on what I'm looking at. Original, homage or reconditioned is not the issue unless advised I'm making an error here purchasing one! Its primarily the design and sputnik feature that's attracted me. As a new watch collector I'm after help knowing what I'm potentially purchase.

Finally, there's a Ukraine based ebay seller with these along with a few gift style sites, anyone have experience purchasing from there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,030 Posts
Welcome to the forum. I can only speak to the Soviet mechanical Sputnik models. 2 exist.
ChChZ with the spinning disk and 1 MCHZ with the rotating red dot. What your see for the ‘half price’ is almost certainly fakes but as you said, you are Ok with that. Caliber for ChChZ is 2603 and for 1MChZ is 2408. Both of these watches exist with different colors on the dial. There are no differences except for the design.
Buying from Ukraine is totally Ok. We all do that. This is not to say every seller is a trustworthy seller. You need to do your research and use common sense.

Please share the photos of your choices and we will opine on the authenticity.

Good luck!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,030 Posts
Welcome to the forum
Thank you and for the helpful comments. I want to do my research before just randomly purchasing one or more of these so the technical details help me further.

The watches I've found that led to my post are shown below with these pictures.
This is a nice looking watch. Just do not be fooled into thinking you are buying a vintage soviet watch. But there is nothing wrong in getting a replica if this is what you want. Have the movement photo?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #8

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, the blue watch is a quartz movement and is a modern homage which led me to find the further mechanical watches. I'm totally open to any of them, and note the brand new quartz watch is the 'safe' option. I'm very open to an original, however as with all, it's about price! It appears there's the original watch, and later 90s mechanical versions. [/QUOTE]

This is a nice looking watch. Just do not be fooled into thinking you are buying a vintage soviet watch. But there is nothing wrong in getting a replica if this is what you want. Have the movement photo?[/QUOTE]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,030 Posts
1) Soviet Zim movement probably from the 80s with the replaced balance from the 90s.
2) 90s Zim
3) Eaerly PChZ soviet movement
4) 90s Zim

None of these are ‘original ChChZ’ that was in the early authentic model. 1st one has replaced part. Other 3 look w/o replacements.

Quality wise: 1st (if a correct balance is placed) and 3rd are better movements (if serviced). 2nd and 4th are simpler movements from the 90s that are not the best tome for the Soviet watches

Thanks here's the mechanisms from three I'm looking at to start

Here's a few photographs of the watches referenced
Further picture
Both of the Sputniks with the rotating disk: modern dials and hands. Depending on what is inside it maybe a total fake/replica or real soviet movement. Add photos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,135 Posts
It is refreshing to see a much open and understanding outlook to such watches, it must be the pragmatism coming from the Russians at work here as I have seen in other circles a certain amount of elitism and condemning if a certain thing is slightly not right and denounced as a heretic for daring address the universe with such wrongness.

In Reliant the car circles, you wouldn't believe the utter nonsense I have received over the years, it seems every one of them HAS to tell me, shout at me my fun painted three wheel van is NOT a Reliant Regal and I stopped going to classic car shows after one chap got so heated up I had to get the stewards to remove him before awkward things happened in regards to one by this time ex marine, boxer and whatnot was getting extremely peeved at being shouted at...

I imagine the Russians outlook would be if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck sort of thing and I am 110% on the side of that, I know I have bought frankens but I enjoy them nevertheless, their hearts are Soviet and Russian, they do indeed quack well enough and I am not the sort who would try and palm a franken or fake onto an unsuspecting punter without being open and honest that things under the dial may not be quite right, still an iconic piece.

Met a fellow Amphibia owner in a queue today and we compared his new scuba dude to my auld and hoary 090 with the grille and he was up for swapping there and then and I am nyetski on that one, a nice community with Russian watches, every one a winner :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Odessa, hopefully not worn your goodwill out! Further to your advice I've read and looked at ChChz movements. The watch pictured is within my price range and would appreciate your comments on it!
Thanks

Please share the photos of your choices and we will opine on the authenticity.

Good luck!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,030 Posts
Happy to help!

I would pass on this watch. The seller is honest in saying that the dial is fake (called ‘restored’ but in reality it is a sneaky way of saying ‘fake’).
Hand are fake as well. The back is wrong. Crown is wrong. The movement is a mix of several movements. If you wish I can provide some details but the movement is not all by ChChZ. You can even see difference in the color between some bridges.
It is just too many wrong things about this watch. To me: this watch is mainly about the dial. If the dial/second hand is fake then why bother?

Take a look at this one. Looks correct to me.
But the price is way to high for me (especially 300$ shipping. Lol ). But this is what you need to compare against.


Odessa, hopefully not worn your goodwill out! Further to your advice I've read and looked at ChChz movements. The watch pictured is within my price range and would appreciate your comments on it!
Thanks

Please share the photos of your choices and we will opine on the authenticity.

Good luck!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Happy to help!

I would pass on this watch.
Thanks for the further help. I feel I'm at a point I need to educate myself as best I can if an original is what I want and value authenticity, or there's two options, choose the modern brand new heritage watch, which itself is what got me here, or willing choose a fake or frankenstein which has limited real value apart from any aesthetics I ascribe it.

On an aside I love the Copernik watch design, different, space theme, great aesthetics. Found these following up on the links and advice from you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,030 Posts
Valid questions. If you intend to wear these watches a modern remake is not that bad. For the Sputnik watch, given the correct Soviet movement is super common and cheep, I would go for a correct watch/movement with a replaced modern dial. Then at least there is a value in my eyes: dial is ‘restored’ but otherwise the watch is right. Plus such watch should be significantly cheeper that the fully authentic and about same price as completely faked/random parts franken watch.


Happy to help!

I would pass on this watch.
Thanks for the further help. I feel I'm at a point I need to educate myself as best I can if an original is what I want and value authenticity, or there's two options, choose the modern brand new heritage watch, which itself is what got me here, or willing choose a fake or frankenstein which has limited real value apart from any aesthetics I ascribe it.

On an aside I love the Copernik watch design, different, space theme, great aesthetics. Found these following up on the links and advice from you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks, after sleeping on it and really considering your comments and what I value from both watches I've decided the Sputnik is about the design, after all I would have got the modern new homage watch, so a clean face and 'restored' dial is fine, so will source an original mechanism with that. Kopernic however, the history is important so want to get an original if I can and note the comments from the other thread


Valid questions. If you intend to wear these watches a modern remake is not that bad. For the Sputnik watch, given the correct Soviet movement is super common and cheep, I would go for a correct watch/movement with a replaced modern dial. Then at least there is a value in my eyes: dial is ‘restored’ but otherwise the watch is right. Plus such watch should be significantly cheeper that the fully authentic and about same price as completely faked/random parts franken watch.


Happy to help!

I would pass on this watch.
Thanks for the further help. I feel I'm at a point I need to educate myself as best I can if an original is what I want and value authenticity, or there's two options, choose the modern brand new heritage watch, which itself is what got me here, or willing choose a fake or frankenstein which has limited real value apart from any aesthetics I ascribe it.

On an aside I love the Copernik watch design, different, space theme, great aesthetics. Found these following up on the links and advice from you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,747 Posts
Good luck with the hunt.
I always enjoyed "the hunt". That was the fun part for me but, of course, it takes time and effort.

I think the key to success is to have an extensive list of watches being sought. This increases your chance of success and maintains your interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
980 Posts
I always enjoyed "the hunt". That was the fun part for me but, of course, it takes time and effort.

I think the key to success is to have an extensive list of watches being sought. This increases your chance of success and maintains your interest.
I have always been a random collector / accumulator of watches in that I rarely have a goal but keep an open mind and buy, funds permitting, what I fancy at the time. I do try to buy as close to riginal as possible - not easy with 50 - 70 year old watches. Another thing I have always borne in mind is that I will rarely profit from my endeavours as my collection tends to be a rather changeable affair, currently housing a disproportionate number of K26 derivatives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Odessa, hopefully not worn your goodwill out! Further to your advice I've read and looked at ChChz movements. The watch pictured is within my price range and would appreciate your comments on it!
Thanks
I am a little further down the track in knowledge of russian watches than you, but like you I have just started to build my collection. There are a couple of tips I can add that may help,

i) When sellers state 'Very Rare' or some such thing, they rarely are. Sellers that know what they are doing usually just let the watch condition and movement speak for itself,
ii) Buy from trusted sellers. They know the market and sell genuine watches. However, they also know the price these watches fetch!
iii) Like you I am also interested in buying space related watches but you will likely find out that so are many people. Really bargains can be had in the non-space related models.
iv) Make this forum your bible. There is more expertise and information here, than in ANY other. I know, I have visited most of the others.

Russian watch collecting isn't just a hobby, it's an obsession. ;-)

Enjoy
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top